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New rule requires most green-card applicants to apply from outside U.S.(washingtonpost.com)
61 points by michaelsbradley 2 hours ago | 44 comments
KingMachiavelli 44 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Absurd, currently trying to figure out how to sponsor my wife and now this. The wording seems to imply that even those here on valid non-immigrant visas (F1) would need to apply via their home country. It doesn’t help that I130+I485 (AOS) could take over a year to process?

If you have filed I485 and they fail to process it before your current visa expires (D/S ends like F1 OPT). Then what? You just have to leave, abandon AOS and re-apply for CR1?

It’s insane that the simplest immigrant pathway; spousal green card could take 12+ months and may now require temporarily moving and being separated. Guess I actually will be paying $4K for a lawyer (plus the 3-4K just to file the USCIS forms).

I wish they would just have a simple fast lane for the 100% legal, non-complicated case.

airstrike 40 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

And don't forget that US consulates in 75 countries, or approximately a third of the globe, have stopped conducting Green Card interviews.

kylehotchkiss 20 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

By the way, if you move outside the country, you lose Domicile which is required to sponsor the visa. And if you don't spend enough time in their country visiting them, your application can be temporary "denied" (delayed) with a request for evidence (that the relationship is real) they'll spend 3 months deliberating over.

Today's news make this crystal clear: the current admin does not want citizens marrying outside the country, regardless of how quickly the marriage rate among US population is falling.

bulbar 31 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Happens as well in Germany and it's pure insanity. The US at least does not depend on migration as much as Germany, I believe.

Even the current right wing party CDU doesn't seem to want to make migration harder, but when the extremist party AfD gets voted into office, an already highly damaged balance will break.

Sad how people become so detected from reality that they make their society irrelevant and destroying a lot of wealth in the process.

ornornor 24 minutes ago | parent [-]

> The US at least does not depend on migration as much as Germany, I believe.

To me it feels like the US pretends they don’t need immigrants when:

1. The overwhelming majority of current US residents were immigrants themselves at some point in the last 150 years (only natives were there, everyone else immigrated from somewhere)

2. The US wouldn’t function without illegal immigrants

3. Every country is short of workers in one domain or another. Encouraging immigration in these domains (see how Canada does it for instance) would be the smart move. But instead… yeah let’s make it even harder across the board

darth_avocado an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I don’t know how this will play out for employment based categories. You need to be have a job and be on a valid visa to even apply for a green card. How do you then go outside the country, apply for a green card, all the while maintaining your job and a visa while you wait for the application to be processed? As far as I know not being in the US for extended periods of time, voids your work visa in the first place.

buzer 24 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

IANAL. My understanding is that you can do consular processing even if you are in the US, it's just that you need to leave to do the interview (and things like biometrics) and get the actual visa.

Now I'm not sure if you are allowed to re-enter after your interview before your case is decided/you get the visa but I would imagine so (if have valid visa), you would just need to exit again to get the visa later.

kettlecorn 7 minutes ago | parent [-]

Also not a lawyer.

I believe the issue with what you're describing is that if you're on a temporary visa, like a student visa, applying for a green card shows intent of immigration so you cannot return to the US on a student visa.

If you have an H-1B already you may be able to do what you're describing. If you're a recent grad in the US this basically locks you out of trying to get a green card until you've already secured an H-1B.

cheinic6493 11 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

> You need to be have a job and be on a valid visa to even apply for a green card.

False

You don’t need a job to apply for green card.

Valid visa, yes. But that’s easy.

zaptheimpaler an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This is probably for the best in the long term. They've added enough friction, insanity and disdain for foreigners that no sane person will immigrate and we can start to build stronger industries and trade relationships outside the US.

hermannj314 an hour ago | parent | next [-]

From what I could understand from the 6-page memorandum, (my paraphrase) "the law allows us to be nice and convenient, but doesn't require us to be nice and convenient, so we decided to make things hard and cruel going forward"

The current administration is sending a pretty clear message to immigrants.

epistasis an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

How is this good in any way?

How could this ever help to build stronger industries or trade relationships?

If somebody hands you a shit sandwich you don't need to pretend it tastes good.

zaptheimpaler an hour ago | parent | next [-]

It will help would-be immigrants understand that the US does not want them and that it would be a mistake to invest time and energy trying to build a future in a country that hates them and can nuke their lives at the drop of a hat. It will help other countries that are not the US retain their talent and build up their own industries. A greater diversity in distribution of talent and industry across the world is a more resilient system.

drivingmenuts an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It could be good for anyone country that's not the US (despite our hubris, we're not actually the center of the universe). But for the US, a country built on immigrants ands immigration, probably not so much. We fucked around, we found out.

Well, we're continuing to find out. We haven't exactly scraped rocked bottom yet.

BrokenCogs 26 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think it's sarcasm

hiddencost an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

I think the parent is saying it's good because immigrants will go elsewhere and the US will continue to decline. Which will be good for humanity.

rayiner an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Isn’t it better for the smart people in India to stay there and make India richer, instead of coming to the U.S. to make billionaires here richer? These countries absolutely suffer from the brain drain.

cheinic6493 10 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

> Isn’t it better for the smart people in India to stay there and make India richer, instead of coming to the U.S. to make billionaires here richer?

An Indian’s greatest accomplishment in life is leaving India.

zaptheimpaler an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yes exactly. One country sucking up all the best talent is not good for the world, its a single point of failure.

airstrike 43 minutes ago | parent [-]

That's not really how it works. Immigrants also benefit from coming to the US.

Skilled labor immigration is great for everyone involved, and bad only for the countries that suffer the brain drain.

But it's not zero-sum. The damage to those countries from losing talent is smaller than the benefits to the immigrant, their new country, and ultimately all of humanity.

rayiner 29 minutes ago | parent [-]

> and bad only for the countries that suffer the brain drain.

That's a pretty big qualifier!

> The damage to those countries from losing talent is smaller than the benefits to the immigrant, their new country, and ultimately all of humanity

Isn't it the opposite? Creating wealth and technology in India helps a billion quite poor people. Creating wealth in the U.S. helps 300 million already rich people.

airstrike 18 minutes ago | parent [-]

Except you can't create Google in India. Google isn't minted by divine inspiration hitting a couple of smart guys in a garage.

It's created by an entire ecosystem that allows a project like that to be conceived and executed in such a way that has benefited the entire world, including the poor in India.

It's a big qualifier, but like I said, it's not zero-sum.

No economist will argue that limiting skilled labor immigration (or any immigration, really!) is an optimal policy for improving the lives of the poor elsewhere. It just doesn't work that way.

rayiner a few seconds ago | parent [-]

[delayed]

gyomu 39 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

In many cases a talented/smart person will bring little to zero value to a country with ossified institutions, but huge value to one with the right systems in place to build value.

hibikir 43 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

The way it works is that the origin country is worse off when people leave, but in general immigrants are much better off for moving, and it's not even close.

A big argument for letting people emigrate is that they owe no real debt to the county where they are born, or the city, or anything like that. They aren't selfs owned by a nobleman. If moving increases their personal lot, why should we stop them?

digitaltrees 13 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It’s amazing to see someone do literally all of the opposite things to create a successful business, country, economy and world.

chopete3 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

From the USCIS policy directive.

>> admitted into the United States as nonimmigrants to depart rather than pursue adjustment of status. Such aliens are generally expected to pursue an immigrant visa and admission from outside the United States if they wish to reside permanently in this country.

H1-B was already a dual intent visa. Are they trying to create a new visa category?

Whatever they are trying to get to this is a big concern for all H1B employees.

cheinic6493 10 minutes ago | parent [-]

> Whatever they are trying to get to this is a big concern for all H1B employees.

Thankfully H1B is a small visa category.

rayiner an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The U.S. doesn’t have a real statutory pathway to permanent residency for skilled immigrants. The current H1B to Green Card pipeline is built on a legal fiction papered over a visa program that was the word “non-immigrant intent” written all over the statute.

Gemini gets this correct: “The H-1B visa is a nonimmigrant classification that allows U.S. employers to temporarily employ foreign nationals in ‘specialty occupations’ that require highly specialized knowledge and at least a bachelor's degree.”

airstrike an hour ago | parent | next [-]

You're not actually wrong, but your phrasing makes it sound like that somehow excuses this travesty of justice.

I can only assume that's accidental. You're the 17th most active person on HN, so I'm certain you've seen an overwhelming amount of evidence of how skilled immigrants are immensely beneficial to the US economy.

The H-1B is not the only path to a green card. There are many ways, every case is different, and pretty much all of the paths suck, even if you do everything right.

This decision only makes all of those paths worse.

rayiner 15 minutes ago | parent [-]

> evidence of how skilled immigrants are immensely beneficial to the US economy.

That's irrelevant. "Justice" means following the rules. Congress gets to decide the immigration laws. Congress has never created a real system for skilled permanent immigrants. The term "H1B" actually comes from 8 USC 101(a)(15)(H)(i)(B).

Subsection (a)(15) literally defines the term "immigrant" to exclude people in the subsequent subsections, including (H)(i)(b). Subsection (a)(15)(H)(i)(b) then reiterates that the category is for someone "who is coming temporarily to the United States to perform services." Congress didn't hide the ball.

It's just an example of how the immigration laws have been a bait-and-switch for decades: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/29/podcasts/the-daily/electi...

buzer 31 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Intent (are you planning to switch immigrant visa later) and status (immigrant/non-immigrant) are two different things. Visas like B1 are non-immigrant and require that you are not intending to abandon your foreign residence. In practice that means that when you enter US you cannot be planning to apply for immigrant visa. H1B is also non-immigrant visa, but it is dual intent visa meaning it doesn't have that requirement and thus it's fine to enter even if you intent to apply for GC. You can even exit and re-enter after submitting your application.

rayiner 4 minutes ago | parent [-]

[delayed]

booleandilemma 7 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This news made my day.

Where's that asshole immigration lawyer that likes to post here? I wonder how he feels about it.

az226 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

No paywall link: https://archive.is/yi2cX

SV_BubbleTime an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I was under the impression that this is roughly how it works (assume equivalency) in most European countries is it not?

jesseendahl an hour ago | parent | next [-]

No, it is not. And if you fall in love and want to get married to someone on a student visa, your fiancée should not need to leave the country for a year or two to wait for paperwork to process. Which is one of the real world impacts of this change.

refurb 8 minutes ago | parent [-]

Why wouldn’t your spouse just stay on the student visa? From what I gather it’s purely the processing that is overseas.

Stay on whatever visa you’re on -> apply for consular processing -> travel for interview -> enter on green card

_fizz_buzz_ 44 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Absolutely not. My wife could apply for German permanent residency as well as now German citizenship from within Germany. She has been living in Germany for 10 years now and at no point in the process did she have to go through a German consulate (she is a US citizen).

nyargh 32 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

For many immigration statuses in Sweden, you must leave and apply outside of the country (outside of Schengen for non EU-citizens) to change status. This was even the case before the current right wing government was elected.

busterarm an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Except for the part about requiring you to leave to process your application.

Wait times to process applications depend on your country of origin and visa type. If you are an H1B from India that was already decades approaching never. Same for Brazil and elsewhere.

And that was before Trump. All that was practically halted.

busterarm an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

This is such an insanely unpopular move even among some of trump’s supporters. I really think this will be this version of the republican party’s suicide note.

airstrike 41 minutes ago | parent [-]

It's an insanely stupid move, but from what I'm seeing on Twitter, it's somehow not that unpopular among the less bright.

cheinic6493 7 minutes ago | parent [-]

> It's an insanely stupid move, but from what I'm seeing on Twitter, it's somehow not that unpopular among the less bright.

Nah. I’m an Indian-American (born in America, never visited India) working at a FANG company here in SF South Bay and I support this policy.

We need fewer immigrants in America for the next 10 years until we can sort out our domestic issues (education, healthcare, taxation, cost of living).

Once the immigrants are gone and birthright tourism / birthright citizenship to non-US citizen parents is also gone (hopefully next week), politicians can no longer blame immigrants for americas problems.