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margorczynski 3 hours ago

Maybe the Chinese are playing the long game by trying to bankrupt the US competition? Because there's no way this is financially viable.

ecommerceguy 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Small team, cheap electricity, very efficient models. Many western companies operate at a loss to gain market share. Why can't the Chinese?

odie5533 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Inference is cheap. I bet the financials of these Chinese companies are much saner looking than any of the big US AI companies which are bloated by investors.

raincole an hour ago | parent | next [-]

DeepSeek is very likely selling tokens at a loss. There're many cloud providers that provide you with DeepSeek V4 Pro via API, and those services at least twice as expensive as DeepSeek itself.

surgical_fire an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

I see no evidence anywhere that "inference is cheap". To my knowledge this is a myth being spread to pretend ChatGPT or Claude will one day make any economic sense.

DeepSeek likely operates at a loss. How big the loss is anyone's guess.

Meanwhile I am happy using their model. It is really good, to a point I forget I am not using Codex or Claude.

missedthecue 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

DeepSeek hasn't raised enough money to be actively selling tokens at a loss. They have a small team, extremely low overhead relative to other labs, operate in a place with the essentially the cheapest commercial electricity rates in the world, and their architecture lends itself very well to cheap inference.

jdgoesmarching 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If you think heavily subsidizing AI models isn’t financially viable, I have some bad news for you about US AI companies.

Deepseek has made some incredible advancements in model efficiency, and more importantly actually publishes those advancements so everyone can benefit from them.

overfeed 27 minutes ago | parent [-]

> more importantly actually publishes those advancements so everyone can benefit from them.

I suspect American inference providers implement the efficiency gains, and pad their margins rather than pass the savings along to the consumer.

tencentshill 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Federal ban incoming then. They did it with cars already.

kajman an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Maybe not. I don't see how US inference providers can compete anyway with commoditized models. Costs are out of control here and the infrastructure is way worse.

zozbot234 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

US suppliers are fine and won't go bankrupt, they can just focus on serving bigger "Pro" class models from their large datacenters. In fact cheap AI makes the bigger and smarter models more useful because it's smart enough to draft a clear question to the model, which helps minimize wasted tokens.

throwa356262 5 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

US providers are burning VC money because they have been selling the idea of total world domination. Even the government has bought into that. Now suddenly they are not longer dominating the field and even need uncle Sam to protect them from foreign competitors.

When VC pulls out, some of them may go bankrupt.

overfeed 11 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

> US suppliers are fine and won't go bankrupt, they can just focus on serving...

For a while, US automakers thought the same of Japanese, then Korean car manufacturers, and Musk laughed at Chinese EV makers in an interview >12 years ago. People learn and get better at making things until they catch up with the frontier.