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goyozi 5 hours ago

I don’t follow the debate and situation in the US that closely but isn’t (part of) the point of wealth tax to offset the fact that rich people are routinely avoiding paying income tax and taxes in general? Thus even if we assume the simplistic conversion here, it’s not that they’re moved from 40->60 bracket but more like <10 -> <30 ?

blackjack_ 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Yes. And that wealthy individuals are avoiding taxes via things like buy -> borrow -> die, in which high stock valuations that increase but are not sold are not ever taxed, and roll over the taxation potential upon death to their current value. Thus by borrowing against them until death, the inheritor will inherit with a tax basis at the current value upon receipt and thus all taxes are avoided. In which case the tax would go from 0% to 20% (functionally a small amount may be sold to pay interest, so really assume 1% or 2% taxes default). The horror!

jppope 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The wealth tax argument actually is because our current 2 party political system is set up to where politicians effectively "pay" their corporate constituency with their discretionary spending, which has increased the national debt substantially.

The only way this system can continue is if we increase the receipts (aka tax revenue).

The political class has very wisely targeted "the wealthy," who are capable of tactically avoiding taxes, but as always it will eventually include the middle class who will ultimately be paying the tax. From their standpoint they will popularize this tactic because it will work

This is being sold as class warfare, but its really the evolution of our political system into an unsustainable system of patronage with public funds.

We have plenty of other problems like "buy, borrow, die" (discussed elsewhere in this thread), but ultimately the wealth tax stems from needing more public funds, which stems from politicians spending all of our money.

fourseventy 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The idea that rich people don't pay taxes is a myth. The top 5% richest people in America account for 60% of all of the federal income tax. The bottom 50% on the other hand only account for a total of 3%.

When Elon sold a bunch of Tesla stock in 2021 he paid $11 Billion in capital gains tax on it... That's more than entire cities worth of people combined would ever pay for the rest of their lives.

jdauriemma 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Can you share a source? Of course the top 5% of _earners_ would pay more, but that's not necessarily the same crew as the top 5% in net worth. And 5% is a large share of the population. I'd be more interested in the top 1% of 1% in terms of wealth.

triceratops 35 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> The top 5% richest people in America account for 60% of all of the federal income tax

I see this repeated all the time and it's worthless without context. What percent of all income do the top 5% earn? What's their share of national wealth?

drivebyhooting 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

5% richest includes hand to mouth workers earning $100k.

ecshafer 5 minutes ago | parent [-]

95th percentile is around $150k individual and $330k joint income.

solidsnack9000 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Wealthy people pay a lot of taxes in the USA. If they aren't routinely avoiding paying income tax and taxes in general, how could that be the point?

It may be more realistic to view this in terms of elite power struggle. There are some constituencies that have found their way into positions of some power -- in government and public service -- that are in conflict with other elites, who have found some power in private enterprise. These groups battle for control of things. One strategy in the battle is managing the other group's access to money.

It's not clear from any kind of first principles, that we are better off with government allocation of a large portion of the society's capital. That hasn't historically been a big winner. Private ordering seems to net out a higher quality of life overall, even with income inequality.

ryeats 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

No it's just harder to accurately tax each and every form of wealth so we proxy it by taxing income.

jppope 2 hours ago | parent [-]

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