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andix 5 hours ago

Slightly off topic: What's currently the free Linux distribution with the longest support cycle?

For a while I used CentOS 7 on all of those small VMs, because it got security updates for a really long time. With minimal risk of breaking things on updates.

PS: after a bit of research Alma/Rocky Linux are probably the best choices for now. 10 years of support. But are they maintained well?

mhitza 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> But are they maintained well?

Alma has a few affordances as it's no longer RHEL source compatible, which means it could ship priviledge escalation fixes with new kernel updates faster.

Rocky responded with an extra, optional to enable, security repo to provide mitigations to the exploits while waiting for RHEL to downstream.

Look pretty well maintained to me. If only judging by recent events.

gh02t 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Rocky's docs are also really nice. They aren't as thorough as RedHat's, but they're much more readable and concise, and tend to be written for a less enterprise-y audience.

mhitza 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Don't even remind me about the RedHat docs, lol. Their solutions pages used to be readable with an account, now I think you need a subscription too.

The manuals, indeed are good, though for more esoteric issues I land too often on a gated answer page.

doubled112 3 hours ago | parent [-]

You can use the free developer subscription for documentation even if you don't plan to use your 16 RHEL licenses.

andix 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Thanks!

I don't care much about being fully RHEL compatible, or no ABI changes at all. I just want a system that gets security fixes quickly with as little chances of breaking things as possible.

ezst 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

For a while (a decade+), I was running CentOS on my servers on the same assumption of long time stability and ensuing peace of mind. Then I figured that over such durations, the ecosystem drift becomes significant and keeping applications up to date and running on top of the OS becomes an increasing challenge (with the more "infrastructure" packages like glibc, python/Apache combos, GCC, ... slowly becoming incompatible with the latest applicative stack).

Then I figured that version upgrades were miserable, not just because I had painted myself in a weird corner with ungodly packages mix-ups, but because the upgrade path was always best-effort. I think I gave up during the 6 to 7 transition, as I realised that all I needed was fedora: with yearly or half-yearly updates I have no need to fight the distro's packages: stuff stays current and in working order, major distro upgrades go smoothly, downtime is minimal. I'm not considering going back to any "server distribution" ever.

BadBadJellyBean 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You are betting that whatever you host doesn't live as long as the upgrade cycle because it'll probably be a pain when the upgrades finally arrive. I'd rather have smaller version jumps more often than a huge jump with everything changing after a long time.

andix 4 hours ago | parent [-]

It usually doesn't live until the end of the support cycle. And if it does I will probably migrate it to a fresh VM instead of upgrading the distribution.

nextos 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I would say NixOS, where it is trivial to switch across releases, run software from different releases, and perform rollbacks.

I have been running NixOS on several servers for more than a decade. No reinstalling, upgrading, or any breaks whatsoever.

tombert an hour ago | parent | next [-]

I've only been running NixOS (in any serious capacity) for three years, but I have installed it on every computer that I am allowed to install it on now.

It has been the most headache-free Linux I've used, simply because I'm less scared to play with and fix stuff. The fact that rollbacks are trivial and snapshots are automatic, and since everything is declarative in a text file anyway, I am way braver. If I do something like screw up the video driver, or the wifi driver or make it so the system doesn't boot anymore, all I need to do is reboot and choose a previous generation.

indemnity 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I run nixOS as well on my home infrastructure (gateway/firewall, a couple of internal servers).

But I have had, uh, non-trivial breakages happen also when I upgrade the system itself to the next yearly release. Non-bootable kernel kind of breakages.

But I will give you that I can just boot from the generation before the upgrade, and it works again. So there's that :)

secabeen 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Alma and Rocky if you want fully free or have a lot of machines. RHEL if you are okay with registering with them; they give ten machines free access to their updates for each Registered account in their system.

RHEL is definitely the most stable major distribution. Alma and Rocky are essentially downstream clones of RHEL.

tannhaeuser 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Debian LTS/extended LTS

andix 4 hours ago | parent [-]

5 years is not a lot. It releases every 2 years, so it requires upgrading at least every 4 years. In the worst case it's just 3 years of support, if you install right before the next release.

ELTS is 10 years and paid. It's great that it exists, but not relevant for my toy projects.

interroboink 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I feel there is a balance to be struck between a project that is popular (where if you run into problems, you will get good support), and one that technically gives longer-term support (but if things go wrong, that support might not be very good).

I haven't used a lot of different distros, but for me, Debian has been a good balance of those factors. You may need to do more upgrades per decade, but the ones that you do are more liable to go smoothly.

Just my 2¢ on the topic (:

WJW 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

So there is a project that you care enough about to keep it alive, but 1-2 hours every FOUR YEARS is too much? At some point I just have to call you lazy dude.

Either the 1-2 hours is a drop in the bucket compared to what you spend on it anyway (like a blog you still regularly update), or you don't actively update the project but still care enough about it to spend half an evening every few years, or you should just admit you don't care about it enough anymore to do even that. In the last case just delete the project.

cocoto 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It can be way more than 2 hours depending on the project.

andix 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Yes, I'm lazy. And that's fine.

KennyBlanken 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Probably Debian or Ubuntu. The question is...why do you care that much?

I've upgraded Debian stable (both pure and with some cherry-picked backports) and Ubuntu (non-LTS and LTS) systems in place and rarely broken anything, for years and years. When stuff has broken it's been a quick google and then slapping myself for not having read the upgrade guide.

I do generally wait about 2-3 weeks before upgrading, giving time for them to catch stuff that was missed until the great masses were set loose on it.

nightfly 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> The question is...why do you care that much?

Not the OP, but I support Ubuntu as desktop and server OS for an engineering collage and have for 10ish years. Some LTS upgrades don't require many changes (mostly minor package name changes) and some take months of work to get rolled out (mostly for workstations, the server upgrades are usually quick.). Not everything gets upgraded every new OS release. If we had to upgrade everything every 6-12 months it would eat up a significant amount of time for our small team.

otherme123 4 hours ago | parent [-]

I have a machine that has been Fedora since twenty-something to current 44, and upgrading yearly is a breeze. Three commands, and just wait for a download and the reboot. The only thing that breaks if you forget that the upgrade needs attention is the system Postgres, until I migrated to Podman images.

HDBaseT 2 hours ago | parent [-]

I recently upgraded to Fedora 44 from Fedora 43 and I wouldn't say its a breeze, it can be difficult, especially if you've enabled extra repos.

If you use Copr (Nvidia Drivers, Non-Free Stuff) you need to ensure all your Copr packages work fine in the next version of Fedora. A ton of packages haven't been updated for Fedora 44 and this will cause issues.

The same applies if you use Terra

andix 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> why do you care that much?

I've had issues with Ubuntu/Debian upgrades more than once. Some third party binaries breaking with the update. Or some specific config tweaks that break, because the structure of /etc changed too much.

For some small VM with a specific purpose I prefer a distribution that changes as little as possible for as long as possible. Less work, more uptime.

irishcoffee 4 hours ago | parent [-]

I won't touch ubuntu unless forced to by some obscure work requirement. I've had enough bad experiences with repos being shut down, updates/upgrades breaking unanticipated, obscure things, and I hate snap.

The naming conventions drive me crazy as well. When you deal with 2 things that have dumbshit naming conventions, like ubuntu and ROS, its really obnoxious to pretend to case enough to keep track of.

Enginerrrd 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Ive had nothing but issues doing that. I think I’ve had a Debian upgrade actually succeed maybe one time? (After some manual intervention to fix some issue other booting on my work server)

For updates, Debian and Ubuntu are great. For upgrades… not so much for me.

secondcoming 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I had unattended-upgrades cripple our VMs

pull_my_finger 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[dead]

pm2222 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Use a rolling release like Arch and it’s supported forever.

andix 5 hours ago | parent [-]

I need to enable automatic updates, because I don't have the time to manually update. I have a few machines on Open SuSE Tubleweed, and stuff just randomly breaks. A few months ago there was a weird Kernel bug that just froze all of them. They update and reboot every day, and suddenly it all worked well again. A bit too exciting for me :)

delicious_apple 4 hours ago | parent [-]

You can always try openSUSE Slowroll (in beta), which is a rolling release that updates less frequently than Tumbleweed. It advertises better stability.

https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Slowroll