| ▲ | rbanffy 2 hours ago |
| > younger engineers often have the capability but not the inclination Kids these days... Why would someone in their right mind think working on the Voyager project could damage their careers? You can work on new and fancy tools all you want to improve supporting tools, and it's still one of the coolest space missions active. Plus, it has a real end - at some point, support will be further reduced and the person will move on to another space exploration job, with the extra golden star of having been on the Voyager. |
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| ▲ | PurpleRamen 27 minutes ago | parent | next [-] |
| > Kids these days... Why would someone in their right mind think working on the Voyager project could damage their careers? It's an isolated legacy-project with no future. Mostly everything you learn for it will be only useful for this specific project, so all time to invest there is time to can't invest into something useful. Sure, there are probably some parts to learn from this too, but It's less than what your competitors will learn on their fancy modern projects. > You can work on new and fancy tools all you want to improve supporting tools Voyager is in maintenance, there is no big innovation or big progress to be made there. It's just work to hold the line as long as possible. And I guess nobody want's to be the one killing it because of a poor attempt to innovate something. |
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| ▲ | quotemstr 4 minutes ago | parent [-] | | You should hire for personality characteristics, not knowledge. I'll take anyone who's worked on a weird obscure system and figured it out from first principles over Front End React Dev #8482828 with Opinions on algebraic effects. |
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| ▲ | FpUser 18 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| >"Why would someone in their right mind think working on the Voyager project could damage their careers" Assembly? Understanding how things actually work? No Agile? No K8s? No Rust, No React? - death knell for someone's resume >"and the person will move on to another space exploration job, with the extra golden star of having been on the Voyager" this is the best case with the result of being tied to another single project for years and unemployable anywhere else. in more realistic case - warm goodbye in few years and start your life from scratch with no credits for the thins done. |
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| ▲ | glimshe an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I would go further... This project gives a rare opportunity for a young engineer to learn to build truly mission critical, resilient software while requiring complete, top to bottom understanding of the software and hardware stack. |
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| ▲ | anthonj an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | I am no longer a junior, but would have been upset to be tasked with refreshing the old historical obsolete laundry (no matter how sacred or distinguished), expecially when I already had experience delivering safety critical products packing much more modern technologies. The opportunity they would be offering is not rare at all! The opportunity to research and design something truly new on the other way is very scarce. | | |
| ▲ | rbanffy 25 minutes ago | parent [-] | | What have you worked on that is as cool as a space probe that's cruising in interstellar space and still collecting valuable data? There are a lot of things as cool as, done by people I know, such as the gyros on the Webb telescope, the APU in the F-35, or a small rack-mountable Cesium reference clock, but there aren't many opportunities like that. |
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| ▲ | bombcar an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Even all that to the side, it lets you say you worked on the Voyager project! | | |
| ▲ | lexicality an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | If I'm reviewing CVs and I see that you worked at NASA on the Voyager code, you're getting an interview just so I can ask about it. I wouldn't normally approve of CV driven development, but for this?! | | |
| ▲ | xingped an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | I agree, and I would think the same, but I also feel like many things I've been sold as "door openers" for interviews unfortunately tend to ultimately be things that no one cares about. | |
| ▲ | PurpleRamen 25 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | But would you give them a job? Would they even match the requirements? | | |
| ▲ | rbanffy 23 minutes ago | parent [-] | | I would assume they have built some key problem-solving skills that can be valuable. Training in tooling is much easier than building the right mindset. |
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| ▲ | bigfatkitten 23 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | There are a whole lot of people in this thread who would rather tell their grandkids that they worked on web apps and sold ads. | | |
| ▲ | rbanffy 21 minutes ago | parent [-] | | It's a tragedy some of our best minds are dedicated to that, and digital surveillance so their corporate masters can sell better targeted ads with a higher click-thru rate. |
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| ▲ | tamimio an hour ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Because software development back in the day wasn’t like how it’s now now, the charade so called software development now is a clown show: scrum, daily stand ups, open office style, tickets, tons of ci/cd BS, and of course, the wrangler aka PM and all politics involved, none of this existed like the cult it is now, I only had one experience in such environment and despite the effort I had to ask for some common sense, it was like insulting someone’s religion, “how dare you challenge the sacred methods that the silicone valley companies are using?!!” Additionally, back in the day there was true ownership for the code you write, the code is owned by you not the company, and I know few old engineers that until now (they are retired) the companies still pay them for using their code they wrote while working there. That sense of ownership encourages you to tackle hard issues rather feeling like a machine spewing code for someone else’s business, I have seen some contracts too where the company will have ownership for anything you do while you are in the contract, including your personal projects on your own free time. |
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| ▲ | philipallstar 41 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Rose-tinted glasses, eh? They ain't what they used to be. | |
| ▲ | ourmandave 35 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Still paid for the code you wrote while working there sounds like a consultant with a hell of a contract, not an employee. | | |
| ▲ | tamimio 29 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Employees, auto industry, although it was in Europe not US. | |
| ▲ | mschuster91 30 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Or like many a company that prefers to paper old hands with cash to keep an old system running until it is really, really no longer feasible. Banks and airlines are the most common example, many of them run on mainframe systems with code that's old enough for humans to go into retirement - and replacement projects usually tend to go into the billions of euros range with many of them failing catastrophically. Even paying some greybeard 500k a year to deal with that stuff despite him being retired is far more profitable in the short term. That's the problem with letting beancounters run the show because eventually, there will literally be barely anyone left alive who is capable - and even less who know all the "implicit knowledge" behind edge cases. |
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| ▲ | sublinear 27 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | > none of this existed like the cult it is now So you'd prefer for all this project management drama and power struggle to be invisible? All this scaffolding is not a cult. It exists to democratize the process. Your personal comfort is irrelevant to the results. | | |
| ▲ | hilariously 22 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Unfortunately in many places it is indeed a cult and serves to ossify management decisions. We ARE doing Agile, what do you mean? No this person is the scrum master and they tell us what Agile is and then we do it, see? I have worked at 8 different software places and none of them implemented things in a way I would call "genuinely agile" and most of them were just bad waterfall with more meetings and telling the engineers they are accountable for the bad ideas that are now their job. CI/CD? How about make that only "Devops" job and then make the exact same undemocratized system before with gatekeepers who spend a significant amount of time blocking your work because they are afraid of things changing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_purpose_of_a_system_is_wha... | | |
| ▲ | sublinear 17 minutes ago | parent [-] | | My point is you would never even have a clue that there is dysfunction at all without these methodologies. These days you at least have some idea in your head how it should be vs how it is. I think there's something critical being lost in younger people who have never been exposed to the bad old ways and only understand their current situation through memes. We need to get a grip here. |
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| ▲ | FpUser 3 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | >"So you'd prefer for all this project management drama and power struggle to be invisible?" Well project managers can have their dramas. Just do not involve developers. Or what is even better - get the fuck out and leave it to people who can do things without drama. >"All this scaffolding is not a cult. It exists to democratize the process. Your personal comfort is irrelevant to the results." Pile of BS. It exists to feed whole layer of self serving people who contribute very little and grow like a cancer. In my career I was lucky. I am an independent software developer. Designed and developed many products for various clients (including some of my own ventures) and have managed without Agile, Scrum and the likes. My largest products - I had teams of up to 35 people under me and somehow we've survived. On few occasions I had pleasure to be on some of those meetings as a visitor - felt nothing but disgust. Again luckily I was spared from direct participation |
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