| > Enjoy your freedom, break free from Google and Apple. You can't escape it. Your friends and employers and banks use it. The state will soon mandate it for ID. It's the accepted worldwide compute platform, and you're being the nail that sticks out. Your usage is subject to breaking randomly, being unsupported, losing access or being banned by stepping outside the traffic lines, etc. They'll use attestation, certs and signing, proprietary APIs, and the scale and might of trillions of dollars to force this. The only way to "break free" and "enjoy your freedom" is via regulation and -- the better option -- trust busting. The EU and ASEAN are the best bets for regulation. Getting another Lina Khan that works faster next time is the next best bet for regulation, and possibly a superior outcome that could result in a breakup opening up mobile for true competition. Being weird in the 0.0001% will not last, nor does it help anyone else escape this monopolistic tyranny. We need the government to pave the way for dozens of Apple/Google competitors. Or to horizontally split these two companies into dozens of "Baby Bells" that are forced to fight one another. |
| |
| ▲ | alnwlsn 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | If a phone can make calls, send texts, read emails, and take pictures it already covers 98% of my use cases. | | |
| ▲ | echelon 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Bad analogy, but it will rhyme: If a country can provide housing, roads, fire departments, public transit, etc. that might cover 98% of most people's use cases. But perhaps that country is also fighting wars, committing genocide, perpetrating mass surveillance, propping up an oligarchy, manipulating currency, practicing authoritarianism, etc. ? There might be points that need to be made and changes that need to be implemented, even if the average citizen or user doesn't directly see the impact or feel immediate exposure. One of the reasons this is hard is that the general public doesn't understand the greater second and third order effects. And even if they do, they are typically inarticulate at expressing how this is dysregulated and dysfunctional to the broader economy and capitalism. Luckily, there are plenty of very wealthy people that are disenfranchised by this that will loudly take up arms. Domestic competitors, business leaders, other impacted industries, etc. That's how and why this will change. Tim Sweeney isn't the only one interested in this. | |
| ▲ | contubernio 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Banking basically has to be done via phone now. | | |
| ▲ | y-c-o-m-b 41 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | I keep seeing this, but I've never signed into a single one of my banks, mortgage companies, stock brokers, or credit card companies on my phone. The phone might be used to get a code for 2FA via text, but that's the extent of it. Everything is done on my PC through a dedicated browser specifically for financial purposes. This applies to Chase, Fidelity, Schwab, Wells Fargo, Marcus, Morgan Stanley, Amex, and more. So theoretically there's no reason a Linux OS on a phone can't do any of these things without Google or Apple by simply masquerading as a PC. | |
| ▲ | ryandrake 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Maybe I am lucky in the USA, but every bank I’ve ever done business with can be accessed through a PC and web browser. If any of my banks should decide to remove that option, I just move over to one of the other thousands of banks in the USA. | | | |
| ▲ | vitaflo 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Find a better bank I guess. I’ve never used my phone for banking of any kind ever. | | |
| ▲ | multjoy an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | The only time I go into a bank is to deposit cash, and that is very rare. I have no idea why people think in-person banking is superior, it is a pain in the arse. That said, my bank predates all the fintechs by decades and was phone-first before smartphones. | |
| ▲ | azzentys 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Sadly, that's not a great answer where most banks are going towards the same direction. It's also convenient to use a phone for banking. |
|
| |
| ▲ | fg137 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | If you never hang out with friends and pay them via a QR code, sure. | | |
| ▲ | snypher 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I know I live in Oregon or whatever but a lot of people use cash. | | |
| ▲ | tensor 38 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | "I live in a place that hasn't seen progress and still uses physical cash." Isn't really useful to those of us who live in places that don't even use cash. Also, I don't really want to go back to using physical cash thanks. | |
| ▲ | bix6 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I thought y’all just bartered with rhododendrons and cutthroat |
| |
| ▲ | aniviacat 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I suppose that's region dependent. I have never used (or seen someone use) a QR code to pay. |
|
| |
| ▲ | stateofinquiry an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Yup. I have not tried using a non-GoogleAndroid or iOS smartphone, but what you describe perfectly reflects what I experienced when I went started to work for a large employer 16 y ago. I had been using Linux as my main OS on desktops and mobile computers for at least 15 y by then. Slowly the grind of hacking my system to access the VPN, check email on their Exchange server, open MS Word docs.. it all pushed me to MacOS from about 2015 - 2021. Eventually I could not abide by Apple's incompatible hold on my data, Gatekeeper (I really hate the concept that they must approve software I want to run on my own hardware) and the unrepairability of their machines.. so I am now on Win 11. Right now, considering the trade offs, I think this is the best choice. I see a lot of people extolling Linux lately, so maybe it is time to try going back. Back OT, smartphones were always less open than the general purpose computers of yore. And it looks like they are increasingly a requirement for participating in many societies. In general I don't find this a good thing, but have little faith that regulators will 'solve' is because they have their own pitfalls (recent examples from EU: age verification and chat control). | |
| ▲ | graemep 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I use a smartphone less than most people. Things I already could not do without a Google or Apple phone: Use some banking apps. In fact I cannot use one banking app I otherwise would because it will only work if you have no non-store apps installed at all. A regulatory requirement to prove my ID without using the mobile app would be a 20 min+ each way drive (plus walking, time doing it etc.) to another town. > The EU and ASEAN are the best bets for regulation. Did you read the recent HN stories about the EU's age verification app that will only work on attested phones? Lots of other governments (EU and non-EU) doping similar things. > We need the government to pave the way for dozens of Apple/Google competitors. Or to horizontally split these two companies into dozens of "Baby Bells" that are forced to fight one another. I have very little confidence that is likely. Politically governments are far more pro-big business and anti-competition than they have been in a long time. > Being weird in the 0.0001% will not last, nor does it help anyone else escape this monopolistic tyranny. Every single person who does not go along, is a a political and commercial argument not to remove alternatives. If I use a website and an app to bank or buy something, it pushes up the stats for the web app vs the mobile app. | | |
| ▲ | echelon 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | > EU's age verification app that will only work on attested phones? This is not a single unified front. Multiple battles are ongoing simultaneously. There are strong proponents of anti-monopoly and digital sovereignty in government, just as there are those that want to push for a surveillance state. Here are some recent and non-insignificant things that the EU and UK have required Google and Apple do: - Support "side loaded" apps (as Google works to remove the ability) - Standardize on USB-C - Force alternative payments platforms - Force Apple to stop requiring WebKit and WebKit runtimes They're just getting started! > I have very little confidence that is likely. I have a great deal of confidence that the world is ready for this. Every non-US nation wants to break the stranglehold US tech has on their countries. The EU, UK, and ASEAN have a tremendous amount of power here. We also have a huge reservoir of political support for breaking up tech monopolies inside the US. Lots of high profile politicians are ready to go to work on this, on both sides of the aisle. Moreover, you have every single other company on the planet that wants this duopoly fractured. Entire industries that salivate over this. It's just a matter of time and making sure we make these points articulate and loudly heard. This is far more effective than trying to hack your device and proclaim "year of linux on android 2030". That doesn't work. It's a miserable experience and doesn't help a single other person. |
| |
| ▲ | logicchains an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | >Your friends and employers and banks use it. The state will soon mandate it for ID. You just buy a separate, cheap Android/Google phone for all these things. Emphasis on buying the cheapest one possible, so Google and Apple aren't making much money off you. | |
| ▲ | Barbing 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Great comment >We need the government to Since they'll never, any marketers scrolling by: this is your time to scheme your way into the Linux phone promotion/sales game. |
|
