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ck2 2 hours ago

if machine-learning can find all these holes

why can't machine-learning write a product from scratch that is flawless?

yjftsjthsd-h 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Who said it can't? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47759709 appears to be a nearly flawless (per spec) zip implementation.

tclancy 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Because the problem is asymmetric: the attacker only needs to find one hole at one time. The defender has to be flawless forever.

perlgeek 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

LLMs certainly make it more feasible to rewrite a product in a memory-safe language, eliminating a whole class of bugs.

Flawless software is hard for an LLM to write, because all the programs they have been trained on are flawed as well.

As a fun exercise, you could give a coding agent a hunk of non-trivial software (such as the Linux kernel, or postgresql, or whatever), and tell it over and over again: find a flaw in this, fix it. I'm pretty sure it won't ever tell you "now it's perfect" (and do this reproducibly).

_flux 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Just because something is good at finding bugs, it may not find all the bugs. Finding a bug only tells you there was one bug you found, it doesn't tell if the rest is solid.

chromacity an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If humans can find bugs, why can't humans write flawless code?

Whatever the answer to that conundrum might be, LLMs are trained on these patterns and replicate them pretty faithfully.

hnlmorg 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It’s easier to break something than it is to make something that cannot be broken.

jonhohle 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Have you ever met a security engineer? I’ve never met one who was also a good engineer (not saying they don’t exist, I just haven’t met one). Do they find vulnerabilities? Sure. Could they write the tools they use to find vulnerabilities, most probably not.

duped an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

You could argue the answer to this question depends on if you believe P=NP