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chimpontherun 2 hours ago

I've noticed that ALL the devices I plug into my UPSes have external power bricks. Most of them are either 5V, 12V, or 19V

So, I replaced all my UPSes with LiFePO4 batteries supplied by Victron AC->12V chargers. Routed the battery contacts directly to all devices that consume 12V (WiFi AP, network hubs, SLA 3d printers). Used 12V -> 5V adapters to supply 5V / USB2 devices (R-Pi servers). For 19V, Drok DC-DC boost converters work great.

Result: threw away 3 UPSes (different APC models). Overall power consumption with AC present dropped by about 40%. Time on batteries (same Wh battery capacity) increased by a factor of about 20 (yes, 20 times: that's not a typo). Evidently, AC waveform generation is extremely power-hungry

tredre3 an hour ago | parent | next [-]

> Evidently, AC waveform generation is extremely power-hungry

I've tested a dozen models from APC. The inverter used in those devices uses roughly 15-20W with no load. Then for any load they have about 85% efficiency. Then you have further losses into any PSU connected there because they tolerate square waves but aren't optimized for it. So yes, in the end, less than 40% of the battery capacity in cheaper UPSes is actually usable.

The reason you're seeing 20x is because obviously you've also greatly increased your battery capacity (typical under-the-desk APC units have 70-150Wh capacity, less than half of which is usable as explained above).

> Overall power consumption with AC present dropped by about 40%.

I'm finding that part harder to understand. The UPS consumes almost nothing when AC is on, so that can't be that. You've replaced multiple PSUs by more efficient, bigger ones, sure that can explain part of your improvement. But 40% drop is wild!

michaelt 43 minutes ago | parent [-]

> The UPS consumes almost nothing when AC is on, so that can't be that.

Back in the 1990s, one could buy a "double conversion" UPS that converted AC to DC then back to AC, at all times. This was, supposedly, the best type of UPS (in my experience they were also the least reliable)

jsiepkes 29 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

As far as I know the more expensive UPS models are all still "online" (ie. double conversion) UPS'es.

These are also the only variants which will protect you against things like a phase ending up on neutral in a 3 phase power system. I've seen this happen twice. Fried a lot of equipment.

Aurornis 32 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

This is called an online UPS and it's still a thing.

It's not a good option for home use because it's always sending power through an inefficient path. The devices we use have power supplies that can handle transients and fluctuations.

aspbee555 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I did something similar but made the batteries and solar priority, solar charges battery and wall power only used to top off as needed, otherwise always running on batteries

The Drok DC-DC did not work for my minipc that needed 19V/130W supply (would cut off with heavy draw), but the JacobsParts LTC3780 130W has been running my minipc's for almost a year now, gaming minipc, server minipc and networking

before that the solar panels barely charged the solix unit, but now my batteries fully charge and I still sometimes have left over solar I feed into the solix

scottlamb 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I toyed with this too, but I guess I have a slightly more diverse set of devices than you do. A few more weird voltages, and some things that expect mains. I looked into finding a DC version of their power supplies (e.g. the pico-box X9-ATX-500 to replace a conventional ATX PSU, tracking down DC versions of network switch hot-swappable PSUs from eBay) but decided it wasn't worth it. I just bought a stock LifePO4 power station. I found that I got most of the benefit [edit: measured in terms of runtime after power outage, not power draw while input power was available] just from switching to LifePO4 rather than from avoiding DC->AC->DC, and it was cheap and easy.

nomel 2 hours ago | parent [-]

If you get your battery pack up to 48VDC, it opens up a whole world of low voltage power converters, since this is standard in telecom/PoE.

dylan604 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Evidently, AC waveform generation is extremely power-hungry

Evidence is the heat from that conversion