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adrian_b 5 hours ago

Vacuum-tube amplifiers are not in the same class with techniques that are unlikely to have any perceptible influence on what you hear.

Among amplifiers that are not perfectly neutral, vacuum-tube amplifiers subjectively seem more pleasant.

Moreover, while an electronic audio amplifier made with modern components can be made perfectly neutral when terminated on a resistive load, i.e. it can reproduce any input signal without any changes except amplification at its output, once you connect loudspeakers at its output the amplifier-loudspeaker chain is no longer neutral, i.e. it no longer has a flat transfer function between the electrical input and the sound output and it is not at all clear which should be the output impedance of the amplifier as a function of frequency to ensure the least degradation of the sounds in comparison with the input signal.

So it may happen that a vacuum-tube amplifier - loudspeaker system has actually a better overall fidelity than a typical audio amplifier that was designed to demonstrate a much higher fidelity on a resistive load (because thus the transfer function is easy to measure and correct, unlike the complete transfer function to sounds).

In theory, one could make a modern amplifier reproduce any quirky behavior of vacuum tubes, e.g. a higher and frequency-variable impedance or certain kinds of distortions, but usually nobody bothers to do this, because it would be expensive and the normal amplifiers are good enough for the majority of people.

Animats 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Vacuum-tube amplifiers are not in the same class with techniques that are unlikely to have any perceptible influence on what you hear.

Yes, they are. The Carver Silver 7 was built to demonstrate this. [1] It's a tube amplifier with 38 tubes per channel that costs $17,000. It has all the important features - weighs 68Kg, vibration damping mounts, takes four minutes to power up, and the wiring is silver. Gets good reviews from the High End crowd.

Then Carver built the Silver 7 T, a transistorized amp with the same transfer function. As a demo, the Silver 7 and the Silver 7 T can have their outputs differenced, or wired up to cancel and drive a silent speaker. Same output. Gets terrible reviews.

[1] https://hometechnologyreview.com/CARVER-SILVER-SEVEN-MONO-VA...

adrian_b 4 hours ago | parent [-]

This is exactly what I have already said.

Typical transistor-based audio amplifiers are different enough from traditional vacuum-tube amplifiers, but when the cost does not matter it is possible to design transistor-based amplifiers that are equivalent with vacuum-tube amplifiers.

The example given by you shows that there are indeed many people who do not truly perceive the differences or non-differences, so they judge based on prejudices. Of course, I agree that there are many such people and the gold-plated cables were intended for them. I agree that they must exist also among the customers buying vacuum-tube amplifiers.

globnomulous 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> It is not at all clear which should be the output impedance of the amplifier as a function of frequency to ensure the least degradation of the sounds in comparison with the input signal.

> So it may happen that a vacuum-tube amplifier - loudspeaker system has actually a better overall fidelity than a typical audio amplifier that was designed to demonstrate a much higher fidelity on a resistive load (because thus the transfer function is easy to measure and correct, unlike the complete transfer function to sounds).

I don't know the electrical engineering at all, but I thought that this was a solved problem -- or that the degradation and mismatch were effectively negligible, well below the point of inaudibility.

robotresearcher 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>In theory, one could make a modern amplifier reproduce any quirky behavior of vacuum tubes, e.g. a higher and frequency-variable impedance or certain kinds of distortions, but usually nobody bothers to do this

Don't almost all transistor guitar amps do this?

boring-human 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Vacuum-tube amplifiers are not in the same class with techniques that are unlikely to have any perceptible influence on what you hear.

I don't disagree. Not in the same class, but the audience overlaps.

> one could make a modern amplifier reproduce any quirky behavior of vacuum tubes, e.g. a higher and frequency-variable impedance or certain kinds of distortions, but usually nobody bothers to do this, because it would be expensive

In other words, the willingness to pay for OG tube amplifiers exceeds the willingness to pay for the sound thereof. I'm not sure you disagree with me either.

adrian_b 4 hours ago | parent [-]

As a child, I have used some very good vacuum-tube audio amplifiers, which had been built by my father, at a time when they were still the cheapest solution, instead of being a luxury product.

They were excellent, so I feel nostalgia remembering them, and I would like to experience again listening through such an amplifier. Nevertheless, if I had so many thousands of $ to spare, I would rather buy some memory modules ... :-(

When I was young I made a few unusual transistor power audio amplifiers, e.g. with the output transistors biased in class A and designed for high output impedance instead of low output impedance. I was very satisfied with their sound and some of them resembled more some vacuum-tube amplifiers than typical transistor-based audio amplifiers.

However, despite their high audio quality they would have been completely impractical as commercial products, because they needed very big power supplies and they produced an enormous amount of heat. Semiconductor devices are much more difficult to cool than vacuum tubes, for the same amount of heat (because the temperature limit for the former is much lower than for the latter).

Nowadays, switching amplifiers can cover all the audio bandwidth with excellent energy efficiency. With an appropriate combination of linear and non-linear feedbacks, one could reproduce both the distortions and the output impedance of vacuum triodes, to make an amplifier hard to distinguish from true vacuum-tube amplifiers.

WalterBright 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

In related news, replacing stock parts on your engine with chrome plated ones makes your car race-ready.

boring-human 2 hours ago | parent [-]

This would have been better as a "spoiler alert."