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doug_durham 2 hours ago

This is a bit of glib answer. Most of the time is spent coding which encompasses typing, retyping, and retyping again. It also includes banging your head against the wall while trying to get one of your rewrites to work against and under-documented API.

OP's formulation makes SWE sound like a purely noble enterprise like mathematics. It's more like an oil rig worker banging on pieces of metal with large hammers to get the drill string put together. They went in with a plan, but the reality didn't agree and they are on a tight schedule.

sleight42 2 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

This is far more true for junior and perhaps mid-career engineers, unless you're working in an extremely well-defined problem space (* see below).

When working as a SWE, the longer I did it (~30 years) more of my time was spent understanding the problem, the edge cases, how to handle the edge cases, how to do all of it affordable, on time, and within budget.

That's engineering.

What you're describing is "writing code". That's lower value than "solving the problem".

I imagine a response, "But agile development, etc."

Yep. Part of solving the often sometimes involves creating prototypes to determine the essential viability of the solution. But that's only part of it. Which prototypes do you write? How much time do you allocate to same before accepting it's a dead end (at least for now) and punting on it?

That's engineering.

Me probably coming across as a dick today? Well, I was diagnosed autistic a year ago, and I'm on extended sabbatical/unemployment due to autistic burnout. And masking is part of how I got the burnout.

* Why would someone be paying for that when there is likely someone else already doing it? Unless you're the rare person who hopes to "disrupt" the competition).

estebank 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Most of the time is spent figuring what the right thing to do is, not writing the implementation. Sometimes the process of writing the implementation surfaces new considerations about what the right thing is, but still, producing text to feed to a compiler is not the bulk of the work of a software engineer. It is to unearth requirements and turn them into repeatable software.

powvans 41 minutes ago | parent [-]

Feels like lately most of the time is spent arguing about or at least worrying about whether or not AI is going to replace all software developers.

ecocentrik an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Glib is called for. The amount of information asymmetry that's still on the table as vibe coders and vibe engineers and vibe doctors emerge is staggering. Professional experience is still incredibly valuable. Most software developers might spend more than 6% of their time coding but no Senior Developers are banging their heads for hours over typos.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/xBilK3gT5e0

pear01 a minute ago | parent [-]

This is temporary. What is the SKILL.md equivalent going to be in five years? In ten? You don't already see a pattern emerging around solutions to encode that "professional experience" into the tools themselves?

These LLMs can already incorporate our entire cultural corpus yet your "professional experience" is the threshold they won't cross?

pear01 16 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Let's also not forget a lot of the market edge of SWEs comes in knowing how to navigate these parts. The fact you needed to be reasonably fluent in a language was already a barrier to entry which meant in better times new grads could earn six figures at their first job just for putting in that effort.

Maybe you will still be needed. That is one question. How well you will be paid and treated when the barrier to entry is now "I can think" is another. As the parent indicates, most people doing software are not doing things akin to pure math. I don't think most SWEs want that lifestyle anyway.

It's ok. You shouldn't fight the coming change. Instead use the time we still have to fight for more equal outcomes (vote for politicians that support UBI, Medicare for all). The longer you delude yourself that you are uniquely needed in an increasingly mechanized world the worse all our outcomes will be.

2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
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bborud 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Are you, perchance, assuming that since you spend most of your time struggling with actual code, this is so for everyone else?

Or are you saying that I'm lying. That I am secretly hammering away at my keyboard while pretending not to?

No, writing code hasn't been how I spend most of my time for many decades now.

therealdrag0 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Are you a staff level engineer that has dozens of other engineers banging away at code projects you help define?

eska an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Try to write a design doc before you implement something (which people find they need to do for LLMs to work at all anyway). You’ll find that you spend much less time actually writing code.

Write proper API documentation laying out the assumptions and intent, generate some good API docs, write a design and architecture document (which people find they need for LLMs to work at all anyway). You’ll find that you spend a lot less time reading code.

dkersten an hour ago | parent [-]

> which people find they need to do for LLMs to work at all anyway

Everything we have to do for AI to function well, would help humans to function better too.

If you take the things for AI, but do then for humans instead, that human will easily 2x or more, and someone will actually understand the code that gets written.

bborud an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It has varied over the years but it isn't actually relevant since I am talking about when I write software.

Writing code just isn't what takes time.

QuercusMax an hour ago | parent [-]

Getting the code into a state where it actually does what you want takes time - but a lot of that is research, testing, experimentation, documentation, etc. Those can be faster with AI assistance but you still need to bang on it enough to make sure it works right.

kakacik 34 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

I am not, yet actual coding is miniscule part of workflow. The rest is cca un-automable by any llm - politics, meetings, discussions, brainstorming, organizing testing teams, stakeholders and so on.

This is how big corporations look like, not some SV startups.

logicchains 36 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

>OP's formulation makes SWE sound like a purely noble enterprise like mathematics. It's more like an oil rig worker banging on pieces of metal with large hammers to get the drill string put together.

Those two formulations represent different developers' approaches to the same task. The former being developers who are much better at planning than the latter.