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wood_spirit 11 hours ago

Meta released Llama just when OpenAI was so hot and its valuation was going through the roof. Speculating, but Meta probably thought the model not competitive enough to keep as a secret weapon but well good enough to commercially damage OpenAI who were a sudden competitor for most-valued-company?

In the same way you can imagine the Chinese government pushing the release of deepseek etc to make sure no one thinks the US has “won” and to keep everyone aware that a foreign model might leapfrog in the short term future etc.

At some point though if OpenAI/Antropic/Google plateau or go bust then the open source sponsorship becomes less likely, as making it open source was a weapon not a principle.

2ndorderthought 10 hours ago | parent [-]

I disagree. I think deepseek, qwen, and kimi earn a lot of trust open sourcing their models. While still profiting.

Effectively they are saying "yea don't crowd our data centers with small queries, go ahead and send your frontier questions to our frontier models. Oh btw those us models? You can run something about as good for free from us if you want hah." It's a power and marketing move. It's also insanely smart to keep up with it to remain sustainable as a brand. Especially given how small their investments into this are.

Look at anthropics growing pains. Deepseek has other hosts spreading their brand for free while they grow. Brilliant honestly. In my opinion it makes anthropic and openai look clueless on a lot of levels.

China is playing a different game here. To them this is commoditizing their compliment and building good will. The Chinese economy doesn't teter on the brink of collapse to deliver frontier grade LLMs. Nope, Alibaba just made qwen because it needs it. It needs efficient models. Similarly, in China they manufacture and automate so much more than the US ever could. LLMs to them are a topping not the whole meal like they are in the us.

WarmWash 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The Chinese labs don't have to make money or be profitable. They are funded by the state to achieve the state's goals, and the global praise of their open models just serves as Chinese soft power.

They're state companies, not some kind of ethical VC charity fund project.

2ndorderthought 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The fun part is, they are making money and have way less to pay off despite 100s of billions in donations than the US companies do.

Spooky23 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Is it so different?

If the US’s fascist experiment continues past the current president, we’ll absolutely be nationalizing frontier companies or exerting equivalent control.

treis 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Yes, China is very different from the US.

ThunderSizzle 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Sigh. Obama and Biden were as every bit "fascist" as Trump.

I'm glad I get reminded that TDS is real, but everyone forgets that Bush, Obama, and Biden all did things with executive power that Congress ignored or provided little real oversight for. And Congress has proven over the last several decades that their oversight is rather meaningless for the goals of American voters rather than special interests.

But it's all Trump's fault is much more convenient.

platevoltage 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Certainly Biden and Obama check off a few of the 14 points of Fascism, but are we really being serious here? "TDS" is just a thought terminating cliche.

try-working 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Correct. Open source is a PR and marketing strategy for new labs, regardless of origin.

https://try.works/#why-chinese-ai-labs-went-open-and-will-re...

D2OQZG8l5BI1S06 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Interesting article, but Qwen does seem to be closing off. They don't release big variants anymore, and I'm not sure that the fact the local-LLM community keeps praising it actually increases the number of people using their API.

It did work for Deepseek for sure and it seems to move the needle for Xiaomi's MiMo; but will it be enough for Qwen and Gemma? Those are the models you can actually run without going all-in on AI (but only with gaming GPUs and such).

try-working 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Definitely. Open releases will accelerate this year, including from Qwen because they're behind in adoption.

HDBaseT 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You can still make money on open weight models.

The compute required to run these models is still very far out of reach for the average consumer, yet known enthusiast, therefore they still sell inference, whilst also getting consumer goodwill for providing open weights.

datadrivenangel 8 hours ago | parent [-]

And the efficiency! Big accelerator cards are ~100x the throughput per watt in terms of raw processing power.

mystraline 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Thats because the USA has really nothing big to export. Yay, designs.

China? Im getting ready to watch the URKL (universal robot knockout league) go on. The USA is dicking around with failed robot dogs.

The USA has been a failed country, coasting on massive inertia. But the tech avenues from a article I cant find showed the USA 8/64 areas excelling. China was 56/64 areas excelling.

WarmWash 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

China is an advanced 2nd world country with pockets of first world.

Smart people in China design fast manufacturing lines for $25k/yr.

Smart people in the US design bond hedging strategies or ad-pixel trackers for $250k/yr.

China is in the stage the US was in 60 years ago, and eventually those high paying, high impact jobs will suck the intelligence out of all the "blue collar" work. Just like it did in the US.

2ndorderthought 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I believe it. The us intentionally lacks accountability to prop up the already wealthy in almost all of its ventures. Which socializes losses and capitalizes gains. It's an economic model that guarantees deterioration and stagnation.

Dodging politics, the power structures in us industry need serious revamping.

mrleinad 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

China is going to be the next Germany: a loser in the new world without globalization

sillysaurusx 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

If this is true, then why are most of the companies that change the world founded in the US?