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otterley 14 hours ago

If you live in a democracy, you already do run your own country. Vote accordingly. Get involved in politics.

orthecreedence 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The problem is democracy and capitalism are incompatible, so that "if" is doing some really heavy lifting.

daishi55 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There are mountains of academic research showing that even in “democracies”, public opinion rarely translates into policy (by design).

zozbot234 14 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The problem with that argument is that there really is no such thing as public opinion at scale. You can poll people/the general public on just about any issue and the answers are going to differ massively depending on framing effects. In the end, it's hardly better than just flipping a coin.

ryandrake 11 hours ago | parent [-]

Even if public opinion is unified, if they want something to happen, they are just going to ignore the public and do it anyway. Like the recent cases of data enter projects where they just ignore the public voting against them. Democracy’s weakness it it requires people to follow the rules, but if nobody voluntarily follows the rules, then we don’t really have one.

otterley 10 hours ago | parent [-]

> Like the recent cases of data enter projects where they just ignore the public voting against them

Do you have an example? And was this a binding or non-binding vote?

tjbrock 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

https://www.stlpr.org/government-politics-issues/2026-03-31/...

ryandrake 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/michigan-towns-ru...

otterley 9 hours ago | parent [-]

As usual, the story is much more nuanced and complicated than the simplistic and convenient narrative of "ignoring the public." And reading diluted blogspam like Tom's Hardware doesn't help.

Here is the full story:

(Source: https://archive.ph/Kiyn9)

> The commission rejected the plan to rezone the farmland [that would allow the data center to be built]. The township board followed suit, voting 4–1 to deny it. But locals quickly discovered that amid the frenzied AI infrastructure gold rush, “no” does not always mean no.

> Two days later, on Sept. 12, Saline Township was sued by Related Digital and the site’s landowners. Their lawsuit alleged “exclusionary zoning”—that the community had unreasonably barred a legitimate land use under Michigan law, and it hinged on the fact that Saline Township had no land zoned for industrial use, and that a data center qualified as a “necessary” use that could not be excluded altogether.

> The lawsuit underscored the township’s limited leverage. Even if officials had fought it, their lawyers advised them, the project could likely have moved forward via other avenues, such as partnering with an institution like the nearby University of Michigan, which can build projects that are not subject to local zoning in the same way as private developments. Meanwhile, a prolonged legal battle against well-resourced developers risked significant costs for the township, without securing concessions.

> Lucas, the town’s attorney, says the township board had little choice and did its best to be transparent. It was “between a rock and a hard place,” he said. “I’m not sure there were any good solutions.” Within weeks, the township had settled: It signed a court-approved agreement allowing the project to proceed, and construction began soon after.

> In exchange, the township secured roughly $14 million in community benefits—a relatively small sum in the context of a multibillion-dollar project, but more than 10 times its roughly $1 million annual budget. It includes funding for farmland preservation, local projects, and fire departments; along with a series of environmental and operational limits: restrictions on water use, noise caps, preserved agricultural land, and limits on expansion.

> David Landry, the attorney who represented Saline Township in the Related Digital lawsuit, told Fortune that he stands by his recommendation that the board settle with the developer. “The zoning power of any municipality—a township, a city, a village—is not absolute,” he explained. “In this case, exclusionary zoning was substantive—the municipality has to have a reason to say no. They just can’t say, ‘We don’t want it.’”

> Sarah Mills, a professor at the University of Michigan who studies land use planning, agreed that the town had few good options once the lawsuit was filed. “States determine how much authority local governments have in zoning, and those systems vary widely,” she said. “What local governments can do through zoning is highly controlled and regulated by the state.” Local governments are also often strapped for cash, making it difficult to defend against zoning challenges, she added.

> Marion, the township clerk and sole board member who voted in favor of the proposal, said this reality was on her mind when she voted yes. It wasn’t because she favored a data center, she said, but because she did not believe the town could win in a showdown with Related Digital. “They were doing studies,” she said. “They were pulling permits.” Township attorneys and consultants had warned that a denial could trigger a lawsuit—an outcome Marion said felt intimidating. “Everything was drafted and filed with the county within two days of the meeting,” she said of the lawsuit. “They had this all prepared.”

> If the township had continued to fight and lost the lawsuit, Marion said, homeowners could have been on the hook for tens of thousands of dollars in tax assessments to pay for the legal battle. “The insurance company was only going to pay for an attorney to defend us up to so much money if we decided to fight it,” she said.

ryandrake 8 hours ago | parent [-]

So a vote happened, and when it didn’t go their way, huge company threatened a huge lawsuit that the township and citizens couldn’t afford, to get their way anyway. Standard corporate bullying tactic in America.

The story perfectly exemplifies how little democratic control the public has over what corporations do in and do to their community.

otterley 8 hours ago | parent [-]

The reason the would-be purchaser sued the state is that they had a plausible argument that the township's denial was illegal under Michigan state law. There are quotes in the article from the Governor's office that they support the construction of data centers. This isn't democracy not working; it's that the efforts need to go up to the state level in the hierarchy.

cool_dude85 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

And when you find that your state senator's votes don't actually matter, will we start engaging in federal politics? I suspect, if it makes the right person a buck, that even once the federal legislature votes against it, you'll find a treaty or free trade agreement or something requires those votes to be overridden. And by the way, the data center was built and began operating 10 years ago.

ryandrake 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

State law is yet another tool commonly used by corporations to overrule the will of the people. The Law is a product that corporations and the rich purchase.

tbrockman 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Even accepting your premise your options are still either:

1) Don't participate (and accept the consequences)

2) Participate (and accept potential disappointment/failure, with the benefit of having tried)

If you view 2) as fruitless unless your desired outcome is likely, you miss the potential value in the pursuit itself: working with like-minded people, building community, developing new skills, taking agency in your own life, and whatever else might come up along the way.

I don't begrudge anyone for choosing 1) (as long as they own their decision and don't force it on others), but 2) still seems like the aspirational choice I'd want to make if I could.

marcosdumay 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Not much of a democracy...

Sh0000reZ 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

https://www.nber.org/papers/w29766

Stop re-electing people.

Stop sitting at home projecting apathy and ennui in between WOW raids and rounds of LoL.

Mountains of evidence from history shows public has to stand up for itself, not lick boot.

Refuse to give the politicians and owner class assurances they too refuse to provide.

Most of them are old af and have no survival skills. They're reliant on the latest social memes, stock valuations not religious allegory, that are not immutable constants of physics.

Boomers looted the pension system of the prior generation to fund Wall Street. Take their money. It's American tradition.

Remind them physics is ageist and neither physics and American society afford no assurances anyone has food and healthcare.

ls612 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

When one group says “we don’t want surveillance” and the other group says “we will use surveillance to destroy you” the equilibrium is clear. This is why liberalism will not survive in the 21st century.