> It's frustrating to try to interpret these stories with a lot of writing and video describing everything except the crucial detail about what the charges were for.

Is it really a crucial detail though? As someone having lived in Japan for a long time, I see no reason why we can not discuss the fact that civil rights and detention treatment in Japan are lacking without resorting to "Do they deserve it in light of what they were suspected for?". I personally see no reason why suspects can not deserve decent sleep, meal, bedding, etc. even if they may be Shoko Asahara himself.

For the record, I have not watched any video or read anything else about this individual. Nor do I intend to.

▲

Aeolun 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It is? Because the whole ‘is it awful’ thing hinges pretty strongly on how many options you were given to avoid it before going there.

If I had the police over, was an ass, had them come back, was an ass again. Then at some point they’re going to just think I’m the person that’d run away while they conduct their investigation.

I’m sure bad policemen exist in Japan, but all the ones I’ve met have been very friendly and reasonable.

▲

Aurornis 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Is it really a crucial detail though?

Literally the central trigger point of the story.

> For the record, I have not watched any video or read anything else about this individual. Nor do I intend to.

Then I can see why you're not interested in the details

▲

idle_zealot 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Literally the central trigger point of the story

The fact that you and other insist on this really gets at the crux of this whole problem. There are two notable positions on criminality and punishment: yours, which is broadly that the justice system exists, at least in part, to deliver righteous punishment on the deserving, and the position of those appalled by the treatment here, which is that the purpose of the justice system is primarily to protect people, and then to deliver predictable, proportionate punishment of those found guilty to disincentivize criminal behavior. If you think that torture of someone detained but not found guilty might be justifiable if they're accused of a sufficiently heinous crime then you have an illiberal position that can and will be used to enable abuse of the criminal justice system to inflict extralegal punishment on anyone for any reason.

▲

arcfour 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It doesn't matter though. Nobody should be treated like this, especially not before their guilt has been proven.

	▲	pas an hour ago \| parent [-]
		reasonable suspicion is a pretty well established concept. importing controlled substances would get an arrest warrant easily anywhere if law enforcement decides to pursue the case. the administive pretrial detention is also pretty common, especially nowadays with the ICE craze. nobody should be treated like this, agreed, but that doesn't mean that the process has no correlation to the level of guilt established and the certainty of it. (the real problem is that it's way too many bullshit laws.)

▲

true_religion 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

For most people, the critique of Japan is because their own countries used to operate jails in this way.

So rationalizations of why it’s appropriate because the person was suspected of XYZ isn’t going to land with them and is largely irrelevant.

But I don’t mind playing devils advocate.

Should the justice system force confessions out of murderers? No, because they are only potential murderers and we have historically been able to get innocent parties to confess. People with vulnerability such as mental health problems are even more likely to give false confessions. The goal of requesting testimony should be honesty not compliance.

This logic applies as well the drug dealer, drug users, and jay walkers. It’s a moral principle disconnected from any specific geography so even if we are not Japanese and have no intention to interact with Japan, we can say they have not lived up to that principle.

▲

ninjin 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Fair I suppose. I guess one can treat this either as a personal story (although frustratingly scattered across multiple places and incomplete) or as a description of a single instance of an arrest in Japan.

▲

fzeroracer 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Is it a crucial detail? Can you explain why you need to know what she was arrested for, given that she says the charges were dropped?

▲

eduction 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It’s not and the reason you can’t have that conversation is that the people you are replying to are emotionally and cognitively in many respects children.

▲

hparadiz 2 hours ago | parent [-]

You can love Japanese culture and still call them out when they are clearly uncivilized. We're talking about a culture largely defined by the same people that did Nanjing. It's quite ironic that the same culture that claims to be pacifist has no problem inflicting psychological torture on prisoners. Asia in general has this problem.

Makes me think of TNG (Season 1, Episode 8). Death for walking on the grass.

What is Justice anyway?

	▲	simianparrot an hour ago \| parent [-]
		«Uncivilised» Compared to what? European and other western countries with significantly higher crime rates? Safety comes at a cost.