>It has been funny to watch people’s attitudes on copyright change ever since ChatGPT blew up. All I used to hear and experience was copyright used by corporations to shut down open source projects threatening their business models, but now it is the savior of the little guy who is a victim of flagrant corporate violators.

That isn't a change. Both claims are true.

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malwrar an hour ago | parent [-]

I agree. My point in short is that we seem to reflexively frame right and wrong on an axis defined by copyright, and somehow we’ve lost sight of the fact that the law itself is used much differently than we might otherwise want.

Technolibertarians confuse free market capitalism via copyright-enabled businesses as a viable strategy for individual freedom, and we find with time that only bastards win in a competition with loose rules and high stakes. Those concerned for the continued flourishing of human creativity in the face of LLMs confuse copyright as a means for small creators to have some ownership over their work, when it actually just seems to be a cudgel that can only be wielded by the wealthiest. Same losing fight, different flavor. I ask: why do we continue to allow “ownership of ideas” to underlie the moral basis of our conversations to begin with?

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krapp an hour ago | parent [-]

I think it's more that we see copyright as a necessary evil that can be used to defend our rights, but will be abused by the powerful, regardless.

To me, the biggest sin of cyberlibertarianism is the assumption that "cyberspace" is de facto another universe, separate from material reality, that doesn't need to be affected by the mundane and vulgar rules of "meatspace." John Barlow refers to "your governments" as if using a computer actually separates him from the state in some meaningful way, as if he has ascended beyond the flesh and now looks down upon the world as a being of pure Mind. But of course, "cyberspace" is just computers, servers, infrastructure using power and resources and thus is inextricably subject to government and systems of law. Zion was never an escape.

So yes, because cyberspace doesn't actually change the rules of the game, we have to play the game, crooked as it is, with the hand we're dealt. The legal pretense of ownership and copyright is all we have. If you want to abandon the idea of "ownership" altogether, then the wealthiest and most powerful still wind up controlling everything by virtue of their wealth and power. What do you suggest?

	▲	DonHopkins 20 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		There’s a great moment from the Pirate Bay trial that captures this: Lawyer: "When was the first time you met IRL?" Peter Sunde: "We don't use the expression IRL. We say AFK." Judge: "IRL?" Lawyer: "In real life." Peter Sunde: "We don't like that expression. We say AFK — Away From Keyboard. We think that the internet is for real." — Peter Sunde, The Pirate Bay trial (as shown in TPB AFK) TPB AFK: The Pirate Bay Away From Keyboard; Directed by Simon Klose (2013). https://archive.org/details/TpbAfkThePirateBayAwayFromKeyboa... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TPB_AFK