| ▲ | Wowfunhappy 4 hours ago |
| Any user who does not like Gatekeeper can turn it off on their machine in ten seconds by running this in a Terminal: sudo spctl —-master-disable
People will say, no, that’s too big a hammer, it’s not safe… but then, like, what do you actually want? Either you keep Gatekeeper because you like the friction it introduces, or you don’t like that friction and you should go turn it off. Pick one, you obviously can’t have both!Of course, you as the developer can’t make this choice for your users… but isn’t that as it should be? The user decides what code is allowed to run on their machines. And the default setting is restrictive because anyone who knows what they’re doing can easily change it. P.S. Meanwhile, on iOS there’s no way to install unsigned software at all, and on Android (starting soon) the process takes 24 hours instead of ten seconds. That is actually ridiculous because it’s taking away user choice. P.P.S. To be clear, modern macOS has plenty of other restrictions which can’t really be turned off and which I find super annoying. Gatekeeper just isn’t one of them. Edit: I’ve just learned that as of Sequoia, you have to also tick a box in Settings after running the Terminal command. So maybe it takes 30 seconds instead of ten seconds. That’s mildly more annoying, but still doesn’t really seem like a big deal to me. |
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| ▲ | kqp 43 minutes ago | parent | next [-] |
| > what do you actually want? Give me the ability to choose what I trust. “You can either trust Apple and nobody else, even yourself, or you can trust literally everybody” is obviously not a good faith implementation of this. Apple excels at steering the narrative with false conflation and false dichotomy, I’d also remind you of the came-and-went secure boot debate, which Apple successfully steered into Apple owns the encryption keys vs no encryption, and people just kind of forgot to ask, wait, why can’t I have the keys to my device? |
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| ▲ | novafunc 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Rather than just having the options "Done" and "Move to Bin", give me an option to actually run it without having to manually go into System Settings each and every time without disabling security features? The added friction feels more like a way to force developers to pay Apple an annual fee for distributing rather than for my safety. Not saying it doesn't help with safety, just that it's more weighed to the former. |
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| ▲ | plufz 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I also have things I want to change in gatekeeper, but that feature is not one of them. Just gut feeling but I would say 110% of all users, would just click ”start” on every unsigned app if it was that easy. | | |
| ▲ | Affric an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Bingo. I know I would. I am the king of knowing immediately when I have fucked up. “Undo” has made us far too comfortable with mistakes. | |
| ▲ | weaksauce an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | they could do it like they do it for accessibility settings. you have to opt in for an app and you need to know damn well if it is a reputable app before giving those controls over. there's enough friction in that that it is not done by many apps but not hard enough that it's a huge ask to whitelist the app. |
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| ▲ | ceejayoz 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > give me an option to actually run it without having to manually go into System Settings each and every time without disabling security features? People reflexively hit yes to these things. | | |
| ▲ | mrbombastic an hour ago | parent [-] | | Just make it a semi-hidden multistep option like browsers when you visit a site with a bad cert, just annoying to leave what you are doing go to system settings and fiddle. | | |
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| ▲ | ProllyInfamous 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | >give me an option to actually run it without having to manually go into System Settings I've run several PiHoles for several years, primarily on latest versions (up to v5; current is v6.4.x) – recently updating to v6 has been extremely frustrating [0], e.g: realizing that even when you tell the pi's/en0 ("internet") interface to use a specific DNS server (in GUI/network settings), it still uses the DNS-server recommended by your local DHCP server [1]. [0] I am aware that this is a joint-issue between RaspbianOS and Pi-Hole teams [1] which requires TWO sudo nmcli which newbs have no business configuring – what happened to -simple- ? ---- If you ever want to consider how crazy DNS-capture is getting, realize that Firefox/&c are all dark-patterning the abilities to turn off "secure"-DNS. The latest Raspian/Pi-Hole defaults are terrifying... [2] [2] another example: why doesn't v6 enable HTTPS localhost web-access, by default (like all previous versions?!)? Do the developers really expect us commoners to know how to generate localhost certificates – this is obviously behavior due to how the pihole useraccount behaves differently then the previously-root-blessed v5-behavior ---- Thankfully, I've kept a local copy of my favorite distro of Pihole v5, and it is readily-cloneable. When I attempted to pass a --version tag during a freshinstall (requesting v5 from remote installer), it went ahead and installed latest v6 (so why even.?!). | |
| ▲ | Wowfunhappy 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > without disabling security features? With Gatekeeper turned off, you’ll still get a warning on first launch which you can easily click through. (Unless Apple changed something in the last few versions—let me know if that’s the case—but it would be out of character for them to remove a warning...) The “security feature” you don’t want to disable is precisely the thing you are complaining about, so I don’t understand why you’d keep it around. > The added friction feels more like a way to force developers to pay Apple an annual fee for distributing rather than for my safety. I don’t imagine Apple makes a substantial amount of money from $99/year developer subscriptions. The App Store is another story of course. | |
| ▲ | Barbing 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Posit it saves a decent number of folks who are unable to follow the scammer’s necessary instructions: “Press command space, no no hold down the command key - gosh it’s in the bottom left - okay, now type “privacy”, now scroll, no you scrolled too far …” |
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| ▲ | ryandrake 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| 10 seconds or 30 seconds, it's just too much friction to ask end users to do. I actually develop on a Mac, but I've written off Apple as a target system for hobby/open source projects. Between quarantine, code signing, and notarizing (which requires $99 a year), it's just not worth it. Good for Apple users if they like this shit--I'm just not going to bother with distributing to the platform anymore. macOS is slowly getting like Windows, where, on a fresh install you have to go through and turn off all sorts of unwanted software just to have a sane environment where you, the user, are actually controlling your computer. |
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| ▲ | seam_carver 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Isn't code signing even harder/more expensive on Windows? | | |
| ▲ | GeekyBear 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The extended validation code signing certificate you need to avoid having your installer blocked by Windows SmartScreen is quite a bit more expensive. https://stackoverflow.com/questions/48946680/how-to-avoid-th... | | | |
| ▲ | hermitcrab an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Signing on Windows is a pain in the arse and gets more expensive every year. I dread having to renew my certificate. Also they keep reducing the maximum certificate length, so you can't just do it once every 5 years, like you used to be able to. I can't remember how difficult it was to set up my initial Apple developer account (trauma related memory loss, perhaps) but it is dead simple to renew. Just pay the $99. I did it yesterday. Took about a minute. | |
| ▲ | kivle 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Well, you can still run unsigned software (by clicking through to a bit of a hidden option in the popup dialog), and they also even remove that through "reputation" if enough people approve said binary (exact bitwise binary, so every new version released will go through the same issue). | |
| ▲ | ryandrake 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Yes, Windows is terrible, too. The entire desktop software world has lost its collective mind and the platforms are turning themselves into locked down game consoles just so that grandma doesn't accidentally install malware. | | |
| ▲ | tardedmeme a minute ago | parent | next [-] | | They might be trying to appease Google who now won't let you pass a recaptcha on windows because windows isn't locked down enough, and force you to scan a code with your Google phone instead. | |
| ▲ | snackbroken an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | > just so that grandma doesn't accidentally install malware That's the stated reason. The actual reason is that they are salivating at the sight of how much money the app store and play store are making. They just don't want to move too quickly for fear of customers revolting. |
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| ▲ | wetpaws 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
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| ▲ | user3939382 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > The user decides what code is allowed to run on their machines. Apparently Apple disagrees, Apple decides. Typical users aren’t going to find their hidden 5 step process to enable non-blessed apps and obviously they know that. Gatekeeper is an appropriate name considering the user themselves are on the outside of the gate. It’s the culimination of everything Stallman and the FSF warned everyone about for decades. By its logic we should install police officers in our living rooms for safety. |
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| ▲ | Zetaphor 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| This is not the developer choosing what software can run on their computer, this is Apple choosing for you and then you having to go disable protections (with what implications?) to then be able to choose what software you run. This has more to do with putting up a scary dialog for normies than it does protecting anyone. A non-technical user isn't going to go bypass this in the terminal, they're going to run back to the App Store where Apple can collect that sweet 30% and analytics. |