I mean, when freenode would go down it was more or less the same thing, no?

Brian_K_White 10 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Not remotely.

IRC is distributed and federated. Not only are there countless networks, each network has countless servers, and each group of servers that are up and can see each other can operate on their own, all the way down to a single server, or up to any subset up to all.

When a peering connection goes down and the network splits, maybe some people in the group disappear, or maybe from your point of view everyone else disappears.

Maybe the remaining subset of other users is already good enough because it's enough to continue what you were tallking about and who you were talking with, or if not, you have the option to just try some other servers until you find where everyone alse is. Were "server" is an actual seperate instance of the server software operated by an independant person, hosted on whatever kind of hardware or vm they set up, connected to whatever network they are on, not what Discord calls a "server".

Even if the entire group of say freenode servers goes down somehow (even though that's not really possible) there is still undernet and 400 other nets. Even without prior coordination it would be essentially trivial for the users to all just go looking for, or create on the spot, the same channel on some other net, and basically everyone finds each other again almost effortlessly. And that's if something unbelievable actually happens, let alone the normal minor breaks that actually happen once in a while.

This is entirely different from being wholly at the mercy of the single entity Discord.

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aroman 10 hours ago | parent [-]

You're arguing against a claim I did not make.

Freenode had full-network outages periodically. ddos attacks, infrastructure failures etc. and when those happened, the practical experience was the same... people waited it out. Nobody coordinated a mass migration to undernet or stood up alternative servers for a few hours. (It took much bigger issues - social/organizational/political, not technical - to catalyze the mass migration.)

You're making an argument about the virtues of decentralization - and I agree, decentralization is great! Just in practical reality, freenode (not IRC itself) had exactly the same failure mode as we just saw today.

	▲	nubinetwork 10 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		> Nobody coordinated a mass migration to undernet or stood up alternative servers for a few hours. There was always oftc...
	▲	Brian_K_White 9 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		I'm not really arguing the superiority except as a side effect of answering the question "isn't it the same?" No, it's not the same at all. When irc servers go down or networks split, the users just hop on other servers if they actually want to keep talking with the same specific people they were. The earlier comment posed the scenario of being high and dry when they needed to do basically support work with users. If they don't care then they don't bother, but that doesn't change the fact that if the communication mattered to you, then you are not stuck the way the earlier comment said. You are only as stuck is you feel like. And not just because of the hyperbolic technicality that you can stand up your own new server. You could, but you never need to. There are countless servers already. And there is no coordinated "mass migration" operation. The channel breaks, you just go browse a few other servers, or if it's exceptionally bad, maybe another network. It's effortless for each user. It takes 2 seconds. You're not trying 1000 other networks blindly either. You already know a few more popular/likely suspects to try first. And so does everyone else, and even when you guess "wrong" and go to dalnet and everyone else is on undernet, there will still be a channel on dalnet with a topic or a user telling you where to go. It's all just not a big deal. It took way more effort to write this comment explaining it than to actually deal with a net split and get back in communication with more or less everyone that was in whatever channel broke.

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rweichler 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

freenode was run by imbeciles