| ▲ | cpursley 4 hours ago |
| They weren’t occupied by Russia, but the USSR which was an authoritarian communist state. That entire economic system failed for a reason, and the Chinese were wise to pivot (and not try spreading its ideology by force). |
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| ▲ | 10xDev 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| Yeah, I really don't think this is why China doesn't try to spread its ideology by force. I don't think a passive authoritarian state exists, just ones that don't have the military power or background / weak enough targets to achieve this. The US very much keeps them in check from invading not "wisdom". |
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| ▲ | cpursley 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | I get it, we are being gaslit and pyoped at a massive scale across all channels about China and their supposed intentions. But proof is in the pudding, China is cutting deals all over the world, building infrastructure - all without forced regime changes or ideological prerequisites nor bombs. | | |
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| ▲ | kuboble 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Big parts of Poland have been occupied by a regime in Moscow for much longer than soviet empire existed, with roughly same outcomes. Most than century after Poland gained independence age WW1, you can still see the economical differences from being occupied by Germans and Russians. |
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| ▲ | cpursley 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Oh let’s just ignore the times Poland/ Lithuanian empire occupied east Slavic lands and force converted a large number of Orthodox in the West to Catholicism. And the kingdom/regime before soviets was quite different than Soviets or modern Russian setup in terms of ideology. Again, that economic difference from last round was due specially to the failure of communism. And don’t forget that the US poured money into west Germany intentionally to show off their system. Look, I get some people don’t like Russia right now, but you can’t judge history through a modern lens; only through the zeitgeist of the time it occurred in. | | |
| ▲ | kuboble 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | What has one to do with another? So to counter my argument about Russian occupation from up to 1914 being irrelevant you bring Polish Kingdom from the times of The Holy Roman Empire? And I assume that polish literature from 18 hundreds was already deeply prescient anti-soviet? Because the russian occupant in 18 hundreds had exactly same flavours as those during the communism. Also the German occupation was in many regards as bad as Russian one but they had absolutely different face. But that is not part of the discussion really. And the fact that russian communist occupation of Poland had been absolutely awful was fully clear in Poland as soon as late 1940s (according to my old family members). In parcitular - some part of my family was ended war in some prisoner / working camps in western europe and had a choice of staying in the west or going back to Poland. How terrible idea to go back it was - became clear in the first few years after stayed so until the end in 1989. I remember vividly an interview one of the russian soldiers was giving in polish television on the day when Soviet Army was leaving Poland. "You don't even understand what you're losing. You will soon realize how big of a mistake it is and regret it deeply." Guess what? We don't. Adam Mickiewicz, Dziady, 1823
"Nie dziw, że nas tu przeklinają,
Wszak to już mija wiek,
Jak z Moskwy w Polskę nasyłają
Samych łajdaków stek." | | |
| ▲ | cpursley 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | I’m not arguing that occupation was a good thing, clearly not. Anyways, look at modern Russia - they have many issues but now operate a mixed market oriented economy and have achieved #4 GDP by PPP and that’s under sanctions from hell, getting cut off from Swift and no German investment. There’s actually more in common with Russias rebound and Poland amazing growth vs the economic situation in much of the rest of the EU, they really could/should be trading partners but the EU won’t allow it. | | |
| ▲ | kuboble 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yes, that is cool. it doesn't change the fact how the Russians treated us for centuries, and not just during the Soviet Era and what were the outcomes compared to as some like say "EU or USA occupation". So we will thank you very much - not interested in it again, but honestly good luck to Russia being a peaceful prosperous country. Also have you noticed how and why the trade stopped? |
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| ▲ | victorbjorklund 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| According to Russians they are the contineuation of USSR. heck they are celebrating victory day claiming they were the red army. |
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| ▲ | cpursley 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | No, they don’t claim that - but they do see it as a continuous thing (Russian civilization and the genocidal threat they overcame). Also, it’s not just them who celebrate. | | |
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| ▲ | ponector 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Also USSR was never an authoritarian communist state. They had elected leaders! Unless Moscow is not part of russia you can't say they weren't occupied by russia. |
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| ▲ | MobiusHorizons an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Authoritarian has nothing to do with elections, it has everything to do with the ability of people without positions of power to influence those in power without retribution. Most countries have elections, these days, but there is no lack of authoritarian rulers staying in power for decades and jailing or murdering their opposition. | |
| ▲ | rembal an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | So, who elected Stalin? He was the head of the USSR after all. |
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