Other countries have $15k new electric city cars for sale. The US doesn't. Our domestic car manufacturers are either uninterested or unable to make them, and import bans are in place on foreign cars that meet that price point.

Also our infra not being 240v is hurting us. The rest of the world can just plug in overnight to any regular outlet and it is good enough for almost any commute.

My EV on a 120v outlet I can manage, but it'd be hard with a second EV.

The lack of ecosystem for good electric scooters is also sad. The weather in much of cali is perfect for it. Last time I went back to China the streets were so quiet as all the electric scooters drove by. An incredible change for the better.

I remember stepping into an apartment parking garage that was filled with scooter charging spaces, like hundreds of them. It was crazy.

Then I went to Taiwan and while walking around I barely talk over the noise from all the gas mopeds.

I joked that the streets in China and quiet and the sidewalks noisy, and the streets of Taiwan are noisy and the sidewalks are quiet.

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joshuahaglund 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I think most of the US has 240 to the home. Look at your power feed, if there are two insulated conductors on an uninsulated line, those are two 120V lines of opposite phase/polarity. I have a friend who temporarily ran a 240 volt welder by plugging into a custom outlet box, wired with two plugs that went to two outlets on different legs of the breaker box. Electric ovens, ACs, hot tubs, dryers, etc. are all commonly 240 and work with the right house breaker and wiring setup.

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com2kid 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I fully understand the 240 vs 120 in US houses.

The difference is other countries have 240 running everywhere. So apartment garages can have cars charging (slower than the max possible speed but faster than if they were on 120v), without tens of thousands of dollars in retrofits.

I just got an estimate of 3k for running basically 6ft of conduit for a new 240v line in my own garage (my breaker is right next to my door, super short run!)

Now thinking about my last condo I lived in, retrofitting even a small condo parking garage for EV chargers for, say, 20 spaces. Let's estimate 30 feet on average line run per space. Assuming a discount on price, maybe 12k per parking space to install a 240 plug, with lines split to cover multiple spaces.

The price is just absurd. That's 1/3rd the cost of a reasonably priced car.

	▲	relaxing 20 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		That’s insane. I just paid $800 for a much longer run, materials and labor.

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boredatoms 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Its not that 220v is missing, its that its special.

An unmodified garage in australia will have plenty of unused 240v plugs

and if they did want to modify, they can pay to have 3-phase 415v

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dylan604 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Most residential mains is 240v on two legs that gets divided to 120v outlets. However, major appliances like dryer/HVAC will use the 240v. I had a 240v outlet added to my garage for larger equipment. It is absolutely possible to add a 240v charger at single family homes with a visit from an electrician. The US standard of 120v is not an issue.

	▲	boredatoms 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		It adds large cost and is a hassle

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JumpCrisscross 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> our infra not being 240v is hurting us

The 240V requirement has been overplayed, in my opinion. I still have a gas car. But my driving needs would easily be covered with 110V.

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kibwen 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Also our infra not being 240v is hurting us. The rest of the world can just plug in overnight to any regular outlet and it is good enough for almost any commute.

US homes don't need any significant accommodations for 240 volt infra. Plenty of US home appliances are already 240 volt; this is a solved problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMmUoZh3Hq4

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com2kid 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

In other countries every outlet is 240, a regular extension cord to outlets in a apartment complex garage is 240. It is less overall amps than the beefy 240v an American dryer plugs into, but it is good enough.

Meanwhile $3k to get 5 feet of 240 ran in a conduit and an outlet installed in the US.

For many apartment and condo complexes, it just isn't doable as a reasonable retrofit.

	▲	kibwen 4 hours ago \| parent [-]
		> Meanwhile $3k to get 5 feet of 240 ran in a conduit and an outlet installed in the US. If you're the homeowner you can do this work yourself, and the permits and inspections will cost a tenth of that. If you live in one of the few states where this isn't true, that's a you problem. > For many apartment and condo complexes, it just isn't doable as a reasonable retrofit. The problem with charging in apartments and condo complexes is not that US outlets are not 240 volts, it's that if those places provide places to park at all then there's little chance those parking spots are electrified at all in the first place.

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irishcoffee 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Yeah this confuses me. I was under the impression that every electric oven and clothes dryer in the US was 240 (220) volts already. I was not aware or tracking that 240v was an issue. Is that the case in places in the US?

	▲	kibwen 5 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		Keeping in mind that US electric infrastructure is the oldest in the world and fragmented across a slew of jurisdictions with their own building codes that electrified in different decades, thus making it impossible to say anything with 100% certainty: US homes already have 240 volt service, but split-phase so it often appears to be 120 volts. I edited the prior comment with an informative video.
	▲	mikeyouse 5 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		Nearly all US homes have 240V to the electric panel, and some have it for specific places in the house (though many places are almost entirely gas dryers/ovens), but you would need a special outlet run to charge your car at 240V since almost all regular receptacles are 120v. Even the heavy duty receps in garages and utility spaces are most often just 20A/120V instead of the standard 15A/120V. Quotes for a new 240V line are often >$1K which is affordable in the context of a household improvement but not exactly pocket change.

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crooked-v 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The bigger problem isn't the 240v, it's that a lot of people just don't have parking that's practical for plugging in without extensive rewiring (a vast majority of condo/apartment garages) or running a hundred-foot extension cord down the building and across sidewalk (https://i.imgur.com/ou0uYmb.jpeg).