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gghh an hour ago

Right. "Anarchists are simply people who believe human beings are capable of behaving in a reasonable fashion without having to be forced to. It is really a very simple notion."

From: "Are You An Anarchist? The Answer May Surprise You!", David Graeber, 2009, https://davidgraeber.org/articles/are-you-an-anarchist-the-a...

dizhn a minute ago | parent | next [-]

Here's another excellent piece. Ignore the site please.

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2005/03/butler-shaffer/lx-what-i...

> almost all of your daily behavior is an anarchistic expression. How you deal with your neighbors, coworkers, fellow customers in shopping malls or grocery stores, is often determined by subtle processes of negotiation and cooperation.

smsm42 4 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[delayed]

hallole 33 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That's one of those definitions that's so broad as to make the word being defined meaningless. It's always silly when one re-phrases their position into something trivial that no one would disagree with.

wredcoll 21 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

I agree 100%, but it makes a mildly interesting jumping off point.

My first question is: but what if they don't?

gghh 11 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

As the person who posted the quote, gonna be direct: no idea.

I have to say, I don't identify myself as a anarchist (maybe a bit of a sympathizer), yet I'm middle aged and finding myself a little dissatisfied by many things I see around me, so if I see people making the equation anarchist = degenerate, my immediate reaction is "yeah let's slow it down shall we."

wccrawford 9 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Exactly. Of course they're capable of it. That doesn't mean they will. They have a lot of incentives to behave badly, and there's no way to eliminate them all.

hallole 4 minutes ago | parent [-]

Even under our decidedly non-anarchic regime, people STILL find reasons to behave poorly. I can't imagine removing the disincentive of state punishment would benefit society very much.

gghh 16 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Fair. But I think that statement isn't meant as a strict and precise definition (eg. Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy or whatever), more like a "gateway" description directed at those who associate anarchism only with utter chaos and "burn the house down" kinda attitudes.

Now, I'm aware that when you need to say something is "gateway" that's a bit of a red flag, i.e. "milk before meat" (describing something as friendly and innocent at first, then only later showing the more aggressive indoctrination) is exactly what cults do. Having said that, I'd grant that the late David Graeber is quite the straight shooter so I think he's in the clear here.

throwway120385 26 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

If we define "leader" as "someone who commands by force or by some other means the obedience of a group of people" then Anarchy is a society without leaders. It doesn't mean a society without order, but it presupposes that people can behave reasonably and that that is enough to ensure order.

red_admiral 4 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Your "Other means" could almost be an essay prompt.

There's distinctions between power and violence (see Hannah Arendt), between social and structural power (see The Tyranny of Structurelessness).

And then there's this ancient Chinese text that has been slopified for a million management manuals:

The best leaders are those their people hardly know exist. The next best is a leader who is loved and praised. Next comes the one who is feared. The worst one is the leader that is despised.

The best leaders value their words, and use them sparingly. When they have accomplished their task, the people say, "Amazing! We did it, all by ourselves!"

donkey_brains 19 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That’s a narrow definition of a leader. Seems to me that a leader can be someone who others _choose_ to follow.

wredcoll 20 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Whats the difference, from an anarchist perspective, of a leader making a rule or a group voting on a rule?