Birth rates would also improve when boys and men are educated. Both genders need education and child support programs. Men/Boys need to understand what responsibilities they have, if they choose to have a child. They also need to understand the effects that having a child has on a woman's body.

Governments around the world would benefit their society by investing in family planning, family support (esp. child care) to enable parents to work and provide for their family.

An educated and healthy populace (from infant to old age) benefits everyone.

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lelanthran 19 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

> Birth rates would also improve when boys and men are educated. Both genders need education and child support programs. Men/Boys need to understand what responsibilities they have, if they choose to have a child.

How are you defining "improve"? Is it "increase" or "decrease"?

I feel that informing males beforehand about the responsibilities of fatherhood would decrease the birth rate. Maybe you consider that an improvement? Many people in this thread consider increasing the birth rate an improvement.

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bhagyeshsp 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This is almost the opposite of what happens.

The more educated/developed a nation, the lesser their birth rate is going to be.

I understand the "shoulds" but that's not what the data suggests.

In essence, we can't have the pie and at the same time eat it.

The most useful thing education does for children is reduce child-mortality rate.[1]

Sources: https://raphael-godefroy.github.io/pdfs/mali_final.pdf

[1] https://eric.ed.gov/?id=ED503923

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Take8435 3 hours ago | parent [-]

This is misleading. Education is not the panacea. I am saying it's a "whole of family" approach. Governments need to also provide more support to families. This is clear to any parent.

	▲	bhagyeshsp an hour ago \| parent [-]
		Let us take your previous comment as the basis > Birth rates would also improve when boys and men are educated. There is no evidence of this being true. This is certainly a narrative peddled by many ideologues. > Both genders need education and child support programs. Poorest of poor and illiterate people happen to have more children than the rest. > Men/Boys need to understand what responsibilities they have, if they choose to have a child. If men are educated on responsibilities of alimony and child support, with almost no rights, they would neither marry nor have legitimate children. > They also need to understand the effects that having a child has on a woman's body. This maybe your personal dream and that's fine. But this has nothing to do with the topic at hand. > Governments around the world would benefit their society by investing in family planning, family support (esp. child care) to enable parents to work and provide for their family. Family-planning is euphemism for reducing children per woman. There's no benefit of having less children -> leading to less economic activity in the future. The family support you keep touting about is moot point. Government does not have their own money. People pay taxes which are used by government. > An educated and healthy populace (from infant to old age) benefits everyone. Agreed on this point. The definition of benefits are subjective but overall, it is agreed that it is a net positive.

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neofrog 33 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If men/boys truly understand the current situation, they wouldn't want to marry nor have children at all. Legal system is essentially rigged against them. Paternal scams, alimony/divorce laws all are essentially designed to protect women at all times with no regard to the concerns of males.

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traderj0e an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

More educated men have fewer children on average, but it's less of a difference than with women. It could even just be because they're marrying educated women.

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AdrianB1 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> They also need to understand the effects that having a child has on a woman's body.

I thought they were built for that. For tens of thousands of years women had on average 7 children or more, it looks like the process is very reliable. These days birth-giving mortality is very close to zero, also post-birth care is quite good, so we are in a better place than ever and still concerned?

	▲	Qem 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		> These days birth-giving mortality is very close to zero, also post-birth care is quite good Also reliable and affordable DNA testing makes much easier collecting pensions from fathers that before would just vanish, or outright deny paternity. An underrated breakthrough in women and children rights enforcement.

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jazz9k 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

"Men/Boys need to understand what responsibilities they have, if they choose to have a child. They also need to understand the effects that having a child has on a woman's body."

This will only reduce birth rates. I have two kids and it's hard. I would still have them if I knew just how hard it would be (especially during winter, when everyone is sick).

There are also many men that just don't care if they have a child, what it does to a woman's body. This won't change with more education.

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Take8435 3 hours ago | parent [-]

So, the solution is to... not provide education? The logic doesn't make sense. You say this yourself: "I would still have them if I knew just how hard it would be"

If it reduces birth rates, that's not due to education alone. That's due to a lack of investment by governments to support those families.

You should know this with two kids. Any help is better than no help. Women want to work. Women want to go to school. That's what this topic is about.

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liveoneggs 22 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

countries with high birth rates right now have government support for families?

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traderj0e an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You'd be surprised how much people "want" to do something has to do with what they're told or pressured to do growing up.

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giantg2 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

"That's due to a lack of investment by governments to support those families."

Please show the evidence for this being true. Birthrates are low even in countries that provide a lot of support.

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acdha 3 hours ago | parent [-]

No country provides a lot of support. Some countries provide more but inevitably if you poll people they’ll mention that they mention significant financial deterrents, not to mention things like climate change, all of which are valid. People only need one of them to be true to decide to have fewer children, while society needs to help address all of them.

For example, if your government provides housing and childcare support—and say that’s the unicorn where those are consistently available, high quality, and cover the full cost—but still culturally tends to mommy-track careers into dead ends, despite doing those other things well you are going to have a lot of women decide not to risk multiple decades of lifetime earnings.

	▲	giantg2 33 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		"No country provides a lot of support." The evidence suggests this is not true. The rest of your comment points to non-financial issues. https://www.newsweek.com/norway-birth-rate-fertility-rate-pa...