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flextheruler 3 days ago

Chapter 11 bankruptcy as well as all modern corporate law has its roots in the tycoons of the late 19th century. They lobbied and wrote it which is why it's corrupt.

rayiner 3 days ago | parent [-]

U.S. bankruptcy law is a foundational social technology that enables the marvelous world around you to exist.

zbentley 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

Even if that's true, current bankruptcy law is still really far from socially optimal.

There are a lot more points on the "how does your system respond to business failure" spectrum besides low-consequence ch11/better-luck-next-time and debtors' prison.

jmalicki 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

What's a country with a more effective system? Not saying that the lack of a more effective system means the US's is optimal, but the outcomes for capital reallocation are far better in the US than the UK for instance.

In the US, workers at a bankrupt company can often show up to the same workplace the next day or week and not skip a beat, the customers might not even know they're doing business with a different entity - only the owners have changed - the old ones get wiped out and their debtors take control.

rayiner 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

> Even if that's true, current bankruptcy law is still really far from socially optimal

A 787 isn’t an optimal airplane either, but it’s a damn good design and it’s silly to compare it to things that don’t exist yet.

oa335 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> U.S. bankruptcy law is a foundational social technology that enables the marvelous world around you to exist.

Can you please expand? This is an expansive claim.

rayiner 2 days ago | parent [-]

The article provides a great example. Airlines are a structurally unstable industry. Yet you can hop on a plane and get anywhere. Bankruptcy law enables airlines to keep operating as they restructure their debts with minor hiccups.

More broadly, our modern world exists because of large scale organizations, the ability for strangers to transact, and efficient markets for allocating credit and capital. Bankruptcy law is a pillar that makes that possible. It enables lenders to extend credit knowing that, if the debtor can’t repay, there will be an orderly process for getting some of the money back. That backstop in turn lowers the barriers to transaction.

Contrast this with what happens in a country without modern bankruptcy law. Businesses in those countries still need to borrow money. But what happens when a debtor can’t pay? Individual creditors have an incentive to harass the debtor and be the first ones to recover their share. Debtors have incentives to pay back certain creditors before others. Creditors might seek to liquidate an otherwise viable business just to get paid. All that means that lending and borrowing is risky. So when people do it, they go through established trust networks, such as families, clans, etc. This dampens business formation and entrepreneurship.

agency 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Is the marvelous world in the room with us right now?

rayiner 3 days ago | parent [-]

We’re literally arguing with each other over it.