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AndrewStephens 5 hours ago

IBM was legendarily over-managed. This is second-hand but a guy I used to work with told a story of when he interned for a summer at IBM in London during the mid-90s doing what would now be called a QA engineering. At that time everyone wore suits to work but the culture was changing so the interns put in a request to be allowed casual Fridays. Bear in mind that they were locked in a back room somewhere without any customer interaction so they didn't think it was a big deal.

Months later, just before the end of the internship, they received a reply. Their manager had forwarded their request up the chain of command and the email had the full quoted history. Their request had been bumped up 4 successive layers in the London office, then across to the US headquarters where it continued its upwards trajectory, finally alighting on the desk of a VP who, after thanking them for bring the issue to his attention, rendered an carefully considered opinion.

The whole process had taken weeks, presumably as each person in the hierarchy debated whether they had the authority to tackle such a weighty issue.

The email had then been inexplicably bounced back DOWN the chain one link at a time, back across the Atlantic Ocean, and through the local office, down to the suit-bound interns, again weeks later, who by this stage only had days left at the internship.

The answer was no.

eps 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

In the late 90s I moved from one country to another. As a part of a job hunt I applied to the local IBM office, because I had some OS/2 mileage. Then promptly got three offers from other places, accepted one and completely forgot about the IBM application.

Not 8 (eight) months later I got a call from their HR saying they'd like to interview me next Thursday. And then they got completely flabergasted when I said I was no longer interested. Don't know what they were smoking, but they were exceptionally full of themselves... while not even offering a good pay.

bartread 4 hours ago | parent [-]

When I went to a grad jobs fair in 1998 or so IBM were offering at least 25% less than any other company I spoke to, and 40% less than the best paying roles.

The only company they were on par with was Arthur Andersen, who were offering around £15k for trainee accountant roles, but you know how fast those salaries go up once you’re qualified and start to progress.

atl_tom 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

My dad was am IBM lifer, when they said they could wear suits that weren't black he wore a blue suit and his boss asked him if he rode the bus to work.

jjwiseman 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Mr. Show, "Change for a Dollar": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyocQT4Vn2g

jasomill 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Should have gone to First CityWide:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXDxNCzUspM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KodqIPMbyUg

JKCalhoun a few seconds ago | parent [-]

I love First City Wide. They really came through when I was heading out to go camping and knew I might need quarters for the showers.

andyjohnson0 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I interned at an IBM R&D site in Winchester (UK) for a year in 1988-89 and none of us interns wore suits, or even ties. I don't recall many of the f/t IBMers doing so either. It was pretty informal really.

(Not disputing your story, just providing a different perspective.)

jiggawatts 5 hours ago | parent [-]

I work with a lot of government departments. The "policy" is not a thing that can enforce itself, and often barely exists at all. Rarely is it actually written down!

Mostly these things boil down to a vetocracy where all managers in some hierarch must say 'yes', otherwise a single 'no' is a final 'no'.

Hence, the trick is not to ask because the more people are involved the higher the chance that one of them will say 'no'.

The manager in that office you worked in most likely made a decision themselves and didn't punt it up the hierarchy, and hence nobody told him 'no'.

The corollary to that is a clever bureaucrat can kill a proposal simply by inviting many decision makers to a meeting.

PS: It's hilarious to see this effect play out as a consultant, because often I deal with different "randomly" selected subsets of the same organisation and the difference in their day-to-day can be stark. It just boils down to which managers take individual responsibility, and which regularly beg for permission to do their job. "No."

derefr an hour ago | parent [-]

> The corollary to that is a clever bureaucrat can kill a proposal simply by inviting many decision makers to a meeting.

Not particularly clever. My experience is that low-level team/line managers typically already have the authority to say "no" to their own people; but they don't want to take the blame for saying "no" (they want their team to like them!), so by punting the decision up the chain, they're effectively punting the blame for saying no up the chain (under the expectation that anything so punted will get a "no" response.)

Some this backfires, though: everyone above them says yes, and so they have to be the one to say no. (They may end up lying if asked, vaguely saying "someone important" said no.)

Sometimes this backfires badly: not only does everyone above them say yes, but someone somewhere up the chain loves the idea, and turns it into an "initiative" — i.e. something the line-level manager is now locked into doing.

protocolture 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I have a few of these.

I asked to be excepted from a contract condition giving IBM first pick on any IP I develop in my own time.

Keep in mind, I was working in one of their technical support call centres. I had no access to IBM proprietary information, I had no role in developing it, I was a complete non risk on this front. I had more access to customer systems, no access to RED or BLUE networks, just an IBM lotus notes account I could use to slowly download information from HR.

Everyone I could physically speak to looked at my request and went, hey that's a really reasonable request.

It took 6 weeks for the first no to come back, my direct manager, whose stats I was apparently holding in place, apparently tried to intercede, adding 2 further weeks for a review. The answer was still no. This had apparently gone up through one line of reporting across to the US, branched out into legal and came back down that path. It was crazy.

So I left, so I could work on a small software project with a friend without risking IBM having an interest in it.

Another one. The HR forms were all written in the early 80s and digitised sometime in the 00s. Our team, not being customer facing, was super diverse. I know there was an attempt to try and get the HR forms updated to recognise other gender/pronoun combinations. This took like 12 weeks to be reviewed, and I think the eventual no was based entirely on the fact that no one wanted to try and figure out whose job it was to update the forms. Our team was full of LGBT people, and retention of them appeared to be critical. Hard no.

Also, our sexual harrassment training came on tape (in the year of our lord two thousand and ten) and implied that it was the updated version, previously it might have been vinyl or something.

cybercatgurrl an hour ago | parent [-]

i never want to work at IBM. it sounds like hell

quietsegfault 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Was? Is.