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suriya-ganesh 3 hours ago

Will the big labs leave anything for external competition?

This probably killed a thousand startups in this space.

in the early internet you wouldn't see google creating their own news site or facebook building their own animal farm. what happened to platformication of everything?

bcrosby95 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Building a startup on an LLM is like building a house on a foundation of quicksand. As the LLM gets better it naturally erodes your moat. It's a completely different dynamic compared to the internet. It's why I'm watching this from the sidelines.

PyWoody 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I have a close friend who is trying to build a company entirely on top of Claude. He doesn't know how to program. He can't do basic arithmetic. Yet, the company he's building is a "Data Science AI for the Government" because, according to him, all of the data scientists at NOAA don't know what they're doing.

I have given up on trying to get through to him how bad of an idea this is. He's unemployed and has been working on this for over a year.

intrasight 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Building a business on top of any SaaS platform is building on quicksand. I know that from experience.

gwerbin 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Will the big labs leave anything for external competition?

No, why would they if they have the choice?

> what happened to platformication of everything?

Business happened. The web works differently from how it used to. The users are different. LLM inference and AI tools is a different core product from search and ads. That, and we have the benefit of hindsight now. Maybe a Google newsroom would've actually been a good idea in 2006 in hindsight, who knows.

Also realistically you could say the same thing about Google Maps and Street View. That probably also killed some startups. Google isn't running a charity for startups.

anon373839 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This was their play all along with their unethical data collection practices: let others use the APIs to discover the applications, then use the data against them to offer integrated solutions in every vertical of interest. Cursor, once Anthropic’s biggest customer, was one of the early ones they screwed.

They are also fighting for their lives because these insane valuations simply aren’t justified by being dumb pipes. Fortunately, open weights models are widely available and have crossed a threshold of usefulness that cements their place as good substitutes.

csoups14 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Amazon Basics for Knowledge Work™

wongarsu 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I guess the argument is that a tool built by a company with actual insight into and focus for financial services, with Anthropic as inference provider, would lead to more adoption and more use of Anthropic models. Something Anthropic could achieve either by just leaving things alone and having the best models, or alternatively by starting some kind of incubator or something. AWS might be a good model

The issue with that is obviously that most of the generated value would be captured by that company in the middle, while Anthropic would stay in the cost-conscious inference market.

noitpmeder 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Why would anthropic at all prefer this approach when that middle man can switch and cost-arbitrage between countless other model providers.

We're not talking about what is best for the consumer (ex more competition to force iterations and improvements), but what Anthropic thinks is best for Anthropic.

wongarsu 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Make up the lower margins by larger volume because you get much better market penetration. But you are right that this only works if you know the middle-men don't go to other model providers. That's where some kind of incubation program that provides capital or credits or whatever in return for long-term commitments might work

But I doubt staying a pure model provider is a winning move. It's a market nobody will win long-term. Almost all of the value to be captured isn't in inference APIs but in how to use them to generate business value. Claude Code was already the right approach, they "just" need to show they can repeat this for other kinds of tasks

khuey 3 hours ago | parent [-]

> Almost all of the value to be captured isn't in inference APIs but in how to use them to generate business value.

If the business value can be generated with a few thousand words in a SKILL.md on top of a commoditized model it doesn't sound like that's a market anyone can win long-term either, and the business value is ultimately going to accrue elsewhere (the customer, the inference hardware provider, etc)

ctoth 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I'm confused because I remember using Google News in 2006?

suriya-ganesh 3 hours ago | parent [-]

there has been a product called Google News since 2002. It was only aggregating information from news channels

_pdp_ 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Will the big labs leave anything for external competition?

Is this a serious question?

Without the big labs with deep pockets investing to change the consumer mindset do you think a small company with no funding has any chance of even existing?

I remember when paying $1.99 for a mobile game on iOS was considered too expensive and now it seem most consumers are primed to spend more on in-app purchases every week. That mind-shift did not happen overnight.

It was not that long ago $200 for ChatGPT subscription was considered extravagant but now even wrappers can charge this price without hesitation - some of them do.

What Anthropic is doing is priming the market of which they will be potentially one of the main beneficiaries as long as they can continue existing. But I don't think anyone will go to Anthropic directly to source their financial services agent. They will go to financial service companies that use Anthropic to build the capabilities.

ambicapter 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> in the early internet you wouldn't see google creating their own news site

Google News was definitely a thing (and actually still exists).

suriya-ganesh an hour ago | parent | next [-]

it's been a things since 2002. but it's a news aggregator not directly competing with newyork times

landian66 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

just looked up, it is still a thing - learn something new everyday!

sokoloff 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'm not sure if this was tongue-in-cheek or not, but Yahoo created its own news site in 1996: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahoo_News and FB had Zynga's Farmville as well.

robotswantdata 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

History suggests otherwise. railroads, telecoms, search all consolidated. The natural equilibrium for transformative infrastructure is winner take all. AGI/ASI won’t be different but will be nearly every vertical and governments will legislate too little too late.

agentultra 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Nothing natural about it. Such monopolies were propped up by the state using public funds and profits captured by the capital class. Many benefitted by the arrangement and so it became normalized. But it’s a choice people made to structure things that way.

The car industry, oil and gas… all could have played out differently if different players had gained wider adoption or if governments used a different economic model.

colechristensen 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

local models are going to win and therefore the hardware providers, Apple and nvidia.

There isn't going to be any moat for the hosted providers besides hardware scale. They can run your request on shared 1TB memory hardware, or whatever.

But local hardware is going to catch up, the hosted providers are going to become commoditized, and the costs are just going to be compute whether its your hardware or theirs.

And your laptop is going to be powerful enough to be good enough for most cases.

robotswantdata 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Local hardware catching up doesn’t matter if the thing worth having never leaves the building. Enterprise services are hard, moat is in distribution and know how.

SoftTalker 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Why control part of the world when you can control it all?

Less cynically, you might say that "use AI to do <obvious thing>" is not really a viable startup pitch anymore. That's not necessarily bad.

mobattah 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This is premature caution/fear.

_fizz_buzz_ 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

But Google did move into a lot of spaces: maps, mail, docs, etc.

debarshri 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I am not sure if people are using claude design, security review stuff and other tools they have built so far.

Building is the easy part. There are lot of service level stuff that I am sure anthropic will not be able to provide, therefore they are trying to partner with other orgs in that realm.

I am very skeptical about their stuff now.

If you are builder, I believe you should avoid anthropic, it can be default to monopolistic behavior, I am not saying they are doing it, but they could, where in they see what you are building, if you have traction, position a product in that realm. Just saying.

colesantiago 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Will the big labs leave anything for external competition?

Unfortunately no.

The TAM for Anthropic and OpenAI is anything that runs software or a screen.

Any software or technology business that has high margins that Anthropic and OpenAI are not doing will be a target.

After both their IPO's mandates Wall Street them to push for more growth by competing in other technology business areas or they will get punished in the markets.

It is ROI or bust.

tyre 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You’re advocating for less competition? AI startup valuations are out of control. People are raising $20m seed rounds.

If you can’t prove PMF and differentiation with $10m, I’m sorry but you’re not a serious enterprise.

And if what you’re building is “pitch deck AI”, I mean, come on.

vatsachak 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> tfw you've been huffing your own copium so much that you forgot you're selling shovels

iewjj 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

lol these agents are missing the point re. What people actually do in these jobs.

This is an attempt to inflate token generation to fool people into increasing anthropic’s valuation.