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protimewaster 2 hours ago

Last time this was discussed, it was stated that the text exempting based on cycle counts was removed from the final, adopted version. Is that incorrect?

jorams an hour ago | parent | next [-]

The batteries regulation[1] doesn't contain such an exemption. The legal argument that iPhones may be exempt goes like this:

- The batteries regulation is a general regulation and article 11 specifically says the following:

> This paragraph shall be without prejudice to any specific provisions ensuring a higher level of protection of the environment and human health relating to the removability and replaceability of portable batteries by end-users laid down in any Union law on electrical and electronic equipment as defined in Article 3(1), point (a), of Directive 2012/19/EU.

- There is a different regulation, the ecodesign regulation for smartphones and tablets[2], that is more specific and therefore might supersede the batteries regulation on this front, which says:

> (ii) manufacturers, importers or authorised representatives may provide the battery or batteries referred to in point (i)(a) only to professional repairers if manufacturers, importers or authorised representatives ensure that the following requirements are met:

> (a) after 500 full charge cycles the battery has, in a fully charged state, a remaining capacity of at least 83 % of the rated capacity;

> (b) the battery endurance in cycles achieves a minimum of 1 000 full charge cycles and after 1 000 full charge cycles the battery has, in a fully charged state, a remaining capacity of at least 80 % of the rated capacity;

> (c) the device meets IP67 rating.

[1]: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL...

[2]: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL...

arendtio 19 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

But what exactly is a charge cycle? I mean, the effect on a battery being loaded from 0% to 100% and drained to 0% again is vastly different from a battery being charged from 40% to 50% and being used until 40% ten times in a row.

SoftTalker 8 minutes ago | parent [-]

And how many people have the free mental space to manage the charge capacity of their phone?

I plug mine into the charger when I go to bed, and unplug it in the morning when I start my day. I don't have time to think about phone charge levels much beyond that.

motbus3 40 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I can strongly state that it is 100% possible to do ip67 with removable batteries in the sense people general mean.

That said, I am afraid how one can play with the definition of removable. Everything is removable given enough force.

FeepingCreature 27 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

EU courts generally frown on such shenanigans.

throwaway2037 22 minutes ago | parent [-]

Great point. This sections closes that opportunity:

    > No barriers: The use of adhesives that can only be removed with heat or solvents is prohibited.
The whole "removable (but only) with a jackhammer" is negated immediately.
vrighter 22 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

the galaxy s5 had everything we are told they removed for waterproofing. removable back cover and battery, and a headphone jack

peterlada an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

This is solid. I like it.

criddell 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

On the page linked to it mentions the two exceptions that exempt iPhone and other flagship phones - long lifespan (80% after 1000 charges) and waterproof (IP67).

The other exemption criteria is for specialized (medical) devices and devices where a removable battery would be unsafe.

protimewaster 2 hours ago | parent [-]

It does, but, in the previous HN discussion, there was a link to the what was reportedly the adopted version of the bill, and those exemptions were gone from the text.

2 hours ago | parent [-]
[deleted]
IshKebab an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Yeah I found the exception for waterproof devices (which isn't any waterproof devices; arguably phones wouldn't count). But there doesn't appear to be anything about cycle counts:

> To ensure the safety of end-users, this Regulation should provide for a limited derogation for portable batteries from the removability and replaceability requirements set for portable batteries concerning appliances that incorporate portable batteries and that are specifically designed to be used, for the majority of the active service of the appliance, in an environment that is regularly subject to splashing water, water streams or water immersion and that are intended to be washable or rinseable. This derogation should only apply when it is not possible, by way of redesign of the appliance, to ensure the safety of the end-user and the safe continued use of the appliance after the end-user has correctly followed the instructions to remove and replace the battery. Where the derogation applies, the product should be designed in such a way as to make the battery removable and replaceable only by independent professionals, and not by end-users.