| ▲ | matchbok3 3 hours ago |
| While sounding nice in theory, these sorts of regulations will certainly curtail innovation while providing very, very little value elsewhere. If people wanted removable batteries in their phones, they would buy them a lot. They don't. |
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| ▲ | ben-schaaf 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| > If people wanted removable batteries in their phones, they would buy them a lot. They don't. This argument gets thrown about every time companies make anti-consumer changes, and it completely ignores the information asymmetry and other dynamics at play. When I go to the store to buy a new phone, where does it list on the box how repairable the device is? Where does it show how expensive the repair will be? If I'm locked in the apple ecosystem, where do I buy an iPhone with a replaceable battery? Your assumption that the market is driven by informed consumer choices presupposes that every buyer is an expert. |
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| ▲ | matchbok3 an hour ago | parent [-] | | None of that really matters, though. Most people are not repairing anything they own. It is cheaper to replace. That may be good or bad, I do not know. | | |
| ▲ | TheCycoONE 33 minutes ago | parent [-] | | I don't have the evidence to say either way, but I do know that at least my city has a lot of cellphone repair businesses, including mall kiosks. Presumably they have enough clientele to keep them going which suggests a lot of people are repairing their phones. |
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| ▲ | mossTechnician 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Which flagship phones with replaceable batteries can customers buy? Samsung was the last major brand in the US to have one, and they made the choice to remove it. |
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| ▲ | matchbok3 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Not sure. But there are plenty of flip phones with removable batteries. | | |
| ▲ | anonymars 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | So you're suggesting we all just need to buy exclusively flip phones for a few years to send the market a signal that it wants replaceable batteries. Then the free market will do its thing and keep the engine of innovation running Speaking of which, does anyone want to do a list of "features added to smartphones over the last 10 years" vs "features removed from smartphones over the last 10 years" so we can see just what innovations are at risk? | | |
| ▲ | matchbok3 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | I'm not suggesting anything, I'm simply offering the reality of the smartphone market. What you are suggesting is a contrived, exaggerated take of how markets function. People generally like small, thin phones, as evidenced by the billions sold. It really isn't much more complicated than that. | | |
| ▲ | 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | anonymars 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | That's an interesting assertion given that phones have gotten progressively larger and the iPhone Mini was phased out Maybe it is more complicated than that |
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| ▲ | lightedman 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | "Which flagship phones with replaceable batteries can customers buy?" Most of the Kyocera Duraforce line has this ability. | | |
| ▲ | ben-schaaf 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Their latest and greatest PRO 3 runs a chip that was mid-range when it releases 4 years ago and only 6 GB of RAM. That is decidedly not a flagship. | | |
| ▲ | lightedman 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | My Kyocera will work in orbit and withstand intense radiation. In fact, this very moment my new Duraforce Pro 3 is having fun in a launch-testing thermal/vac chamber. Kyocera's 'flagship' is high-reliability phones in absolute garbage environments. Samsung's 'flagship' overheats and earns them class-action lawsuits. Motorola's 'flagship' is a hinged throwback to the 90s. Apple's 'flagship' is an overpriced piece of vendor lock-in. Meanwhile my phone takes serious abuse and laughs at it. I've dropped it and watched it go more than 700 feet down the side of a mountain (Chambless Skarn) and BARELY chip the screen protector. Waterproofing still intact. Case barely scratched. What you consider a flagship phone is a brittle piece of junk in my hands. |
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| ▲ | 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [deleted] |
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| ▲ | LeifCarrotson 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I want removeable batteries in my phone, largely because it means I don't have to buy them a lot! I ran my LG G5 with replaceable batteries from 2016 through 2021, at which point there were no affordable replaceable-battery phones left. I bought quite a few replacement batteries, even trying aftermarket batteries with varying levels of success after the OEM LG ones were discontinued. That is, of course, a problem for manufacturers that want to sell a lot of phones. |
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| ▲ | ninalanyon 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Innovation generally happens because of some kind of impediment to doing things the old way. So this is more likely drive innovation than curtail it. |
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| ▲ | spankibalt 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > "If people wanted removable batteries in their phones, they would buy them a lot. They don't." For that to happen there obviously needs to be a supply worth writing home about. Furthermore, speaking purely for myself, a removable battery is not a must but a nice-to-have. A lot of slabs that have removable batteries are out of the game for entirely different reasons. |
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| ▲ | echoangle 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > For that to happen there obviously needs to be a supply worth writing home about. Not really. If there’s no supply, it’s probably because the manufacturers did a market analysis and decided it’s not even worth it to offer that. So either their analysis is extremely wrong and it actually would sell, or the consumers don’t want to buy it that bad. | | |
| ▲ | spankibalt 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | > "If there’s no supply, it’s probably because the manufacturers [...] decided it’s not even worth it to offer that." You got it surrounded. Why offer devices that you have to support for a longer time (e. g. enterprise models) when there's more money to be made when you enshittify (which obviously goes beyond just batteries)? | | |
| ▲ | echoangle 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Because you’ll be the only manufacturer making the desired product and have 100% of this market? If there are multiple manufacturers competing, surely one of them would do it if it’s profitable? | | |
| ▲ | spankibalt 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yeah, sure, some of them already do. Their market share is practically negligible, enterprise players (e. g. Samsung with their Galaxy Xcover line) notwithstanding. That, on a strictly personal level, still doesn't mean they offer a desirable product. | | |
| ▲ | echoangle 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yes, but it’s an indicator that the general consumer doesn’t care that much about it. And I say that as an absolute supporter of the mandatory USB C. But I don’t think the average consumer cares enough about it that apple would have switched without being forced. | | |
| ▲ | spankibalt an hour ago | parent [-] | | If we talk about the same "average consumer" it describes an individual that doesn't care for technical minutiae beyond a couple of specific use cases (telecomms, photo/video shooter, socials). These people are precisely the reason for why a regulator has to jump in if a government wants to implement sustainability efforts. |
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| ▲ | matchbok3 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | So really it's not about phones having a removable battery, but a whole host of other features plus a removable battery. Which is just untenable from a regulatory POV. | | |
| ▲ | spankibalt an hour ago | parent [-] | | Well, strictly from a regulatory standpoint, at least given the thread's topic, it's just the batteries. So or so, the loophole is already in the package as well, so as long as you meet the relevant certs the point is moot. |
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| ▲ | brettermeier 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I absolutely would buy a Samsung Smartphone with replacable battery. The last one which had this was the S5 I think... |
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| ▲ | gizajob 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Even with a battery that can be replaced using a tiny screwdriver, this still doesn’t make it DIY for probably 80-90% of smartphone users. |
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| ▲ | gf000 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | That's not the point. It being done in a local shop for a few bucks with no small letter text saying that "we may break your screen in half because this thing can't be repaired properly". It mentions that it should not use glue, not need solvent and only commercially available tools may be usable (or they have to be provided next to the phone). | | |
| ▲ | catdog 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Also availability of original spare parts is important. Aftermarket batteries often tend to be shitty. |
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| ▲ | catdog 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Nonsense. It just mandates easier repairability and spare parts availability, not ad-hoc replacement. Also this does not apply if the battery is able to retain 80% of its original capacity after 1,000 charge cycles so "innovative" manufacturers just need to use high quality batteries. |
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| ▲ | hashmap 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| that isnt how markets really work. you could say that if apple had two otherwise identical iphones except one has removable battery and one doesn't. but the enshittification cycle works via a ratcheting effect. once you achieve a certain level of dominance and lock-in, you can start getting away with all kinds of anti-consumer strategies to make more money and not get punished for it, and your competitors will follow suit. as long as you can ratchet above whatever detrimental thing you want to get away with is you'll probably be fine. you can look at the lightning connector as an example. if you said "if people wanted usb connectivity they wouldn't buy iphones", nobody would take you seriously. and when apple was forced to switch, it absolutely didnt tank their sales because people just loved the lightning connector so much. the bad thing went away and it was great. |
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| ▲ | matchbok3 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | If Apple could make money from removable batteries, meaning there was a market for it and people wanted it over some other alternative, are you suggesting they are not smart enough to do the research and work necessary to accomplish that? The reality is people don't want it, at all. At least not enough to warrant action. So the story ends there. Also, the lighting connector is better than USB in every way. Mandating an inferior technology is an odd choice. | | |
| ▲ | anonymars 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | False dichotomy. The question isn't whether you can make money with a replaceable battery, but whether you can make more money by selling specialized service (or an entirely new phone) than a battery. What else are people going to do, not buy a phone? Switch operating systems entirely? This whole thing becomes more obvious in the Android world, where models with various features do exist, but only in certain markets Even then, this whole line of argument seems moot because if the battery still holds enough charge over time the regulations don't even require it to be replaceable | | | |
| ▲ | hashmap an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | > If Apple could make money from removable batteries, meaning there was a market for it and people wanted it over some other alternative, are you suggesting they are not smart enough to do the research and work necessary to accomplish that? sort of missed the point. market dominance and lock-in means they already are the 800-lb gorilla, and removable batteries sit below where it'd move most people to switch > The reality is people don't want it, at all. lmao thats a good blither https://www.androidauthority.com/removable-battery-poll-resu... > Also, the lighting connector is better than USB in every way. Mandating an inferior technology is an odd choice. right, except in the ways that matter and that people care about | | |
| ▲ | matchbok3 an hour ago | parent [-] | | Sourcing a tiny, esoteric, tech-heavy, developer website poll about smartphone batteries is not a fair sample of the billions of people in the world that use smartphones. lmao. |
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| ▲ | pydry 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| ...is what people said when they brought in the mandate for usb charging but it didnt. It turns out market consolidation is usually the biggest innovation killer. |