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babijax 3 hours ago

I think that’s exactly what they’re saying. Influence doesn’t have to be manipulative, but it sure can be. Here’s the difference:

Influence for influence sake is selfishly motivated. Doing something charitable garners influence. Influence is a side-effect and not the intended goal—unless it is, and then it’s manipulation.

The fact is correct that the word influence is a euphemism for manipulation. The very fact that people are confused about this is case-in-point on the subtlety of the notion.

dpark 3 hours ago | parent [-]

> Influence doesn’t have to be manipulative

> influence is a euphemism for manipulation

Surely you can see that your statements contradict each other.

> Influence for influence sake is selfishly motivated.

Hard disagree. It certainly can be, but doesn’t have to be. A person can be a positive influence for no other reason than they feel like it’s a good thing to do. You could influence your coworkers to be better engineers and not gain anything from it.

I mean, we could retreat to the “oh you feel good about it, so it’s still selfish” stance, but that’s uninteresting.