Remix.run Logo
morkalork 4 hours ago

Co-ops don't exist at all, right?

tunapizza 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Few people know this, but Desjardins, a Canadian financial service cooperative, is hugely popular in the province of Quebec (and also Ontario), and has close to CAD $400 billions in total assets.

doubled112 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I wouldn't say they are common.

MEC was the only co-op I have ever been part of. I'm pretty sure they stopped being a co-op and sold it to private equity.

throw0101c 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

For the Americans in the audience: MEC ~ Canadian REI.

See perhaps: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumers%27_co-operative

bombcar 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Vanguard is "kind of" like a co-op, in that it is owned by its mutual funds which are owned by its customers.

Fidelity is still better in some metrics, however.

amazingamazing 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I dont know of any with such high capex

tonyarkles 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

This is a really interesting thing, both from an ownership structure perspective and from a "there is nuance in the details" perspective. I did a bit of a deep dive into this a few years ago when there was a local refinery strike. The refinery is a co-op and is also part of a larger co-op system.

I'll lay out the specifics here from what I learned. I'm not convinced either way, yet, that it could work for an airline.

So here's the ownership structure:

- Co-op Refinery Complex (CRC) - produces fuel

- Federated Co-operatives (FCL) - owns the refinery, also owns food and agriculture distribution warehouses, negotiates bulk pricing

- 200-ish independent regional Co-ops jointly own FCL

The CRC is highly profitable. FCL is profitable. The independent regional co-ops are not, on their own, all individually profitable. Some of these exist in small rural centres, some of them exist in larger cities. The urban ones are generally profitable, the smaller ones not so much. The rural ones, though, are largely the lifebloods of their communities; it's not unusual for the Co-op Grocery Store and Co-op Gas Station to be the only sources of food and fuel for miles and miles. While these do sometimes run at a loss, they make up for it with their annual Patronage cheques from FCL: when the CRC makes a profit and when FCL makes a profit (from the CRC and from their distribution network), those profits get returned back to the member co-ops on a pro rata basis: buy more from FCL, get more at the end of the year.

At the far tail end, each of these independent co-ops is a member-owned co-op. At the end of the year I end up getting a patronage cheque based on how much fuel, food, and building supplies I bought that year. It's not large, but getting a $100 cheque in the mail is always nice :).

In this situation, though, it all works because the not-so-profitable pieces own both their upstream wholesalers and a crazy-profitable refinery. (The refinery sells to other customers outside of FCL as well).

One of the other critical pieces that the strike/lockout/overall "labour dispute" really made clear to everyone: the independent Co-ops, FCL, and the upstream CRC are all member-owned co-ops, not worker-owned co-ops.

---

So let's look at how an airline co-op might be structured. The first parallel that I could see would be flipping the regional airline model on its head; currently the big players like Delta and United run a bunch of their smaller routes through regionals (SkyWest, Republic, etc). If a bunch of them got together, they could in theory jointly one one of the majors. The wrinkle there, as others have pointed out, the majors aren't profitable as airlines, but rather through their credit cards and loyalty programs. Alternative, then? Do a bunch of regionals get together and buy a bank? Let the bank be profitable, let the major airline handle traffic between the regional hubs?

I know quite a bit less about worker-owned co-ops, but generally speaking aviation is incredibly capital intensive. Starting a worker-owned co-op airline is probably not possible. A single, say, 737 Max 8 costs $121M. That capital's gotta come from somewhere.