| ▲ | regularization 9 hours ago |
| Look back to the earliest version of the history and information of various countries on Wikipedia. They say themselves they were from US State department or CIA histories of those countries. I was editing a page on the US massacre of civilians in No Gun Ri, Korea with some IP at CENTCOM removing my edits. I spend my off tine trying to send in facts of what happened, my taxes from my on time pay for some propaganda arm of the US armed forces to remove it. As the US kidnaps the president of Venezuela and his wife, blockades Cuba, bombs Iran and on and on, great to know someone else is smearing Russia to further my tax dollars funding the endless war on their borders too. |
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| ▲ | justin66 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| > They say themselves they were from US State department or CIA histories of those countries. Given Wikipedia’s rules and origin, it’d make perfect sense if the early articles referenced the CIA World Factbook when describing countries, if that’s what you’re talking about. There was a dearth of online, open source material to draw from 25 years ago, and on the uncontroversial basic facts the factbook would be fine as an up to date online reference until something else was available. That would be a rather different issue than CENTCOM employees altering descriptions of the history of US government atrocities. |
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| ▲ | stingraycharles 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Seems like the original skepticism about a public, “everyone can edit” Wikipedia is taking shape as international information warfare intensifies. Especially with LLMs being trained on Wikipedia (probably pretty extensively), the impact of these edits should not be dismissed. |
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| ▲ | hhh 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Link to the edit removing your changes? |
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| ▲ | regularization 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | They removed changes and added their own stuff https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/214.13.2... ARIN shows that 214.0.0.0/8 CIDR is still US Department of Defense (or Department of War as Trump and Hegseth aptly call it) but reverse DNS over 20 years later does not still point to the same CENTCOM IP. Also to a point - US military propaganda arm was doing this over 20 years ago. After getting the gift of country articles to mostly come verbatim from CIA and US State department sheets. | | |
| ▲ | swed420 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | Gotta love your informative comment was flagged with no explanation or rebuttal. | | |
| ▲ | pixl97 8 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Agents and government aligned bots curate content here too. Nowhere on the web is safe. | | |
| ▲ | swed420 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | There are gradations between platforms, but I'd generally agree with you. |
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| ▲ | IshKebab 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It's the whataboutism. | |
| ▲ | nsowz 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The moderation of this website is downright shameful. | | |
| ▲ | swed420 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | > The moderation of this website is downright shameful. It's more like a series of tradeoffs compared to other platforms when it comes to features and userbase tendencies, and none are perfect. Every platform sucks in some way. Also, users (and user bots) do the flagging here, not moderators. | | |
| ▲ | nsowz 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yes, the fact that the paid moderators of the site let the users do the work for them so they don’t have to work themselves is one of the shames of the moderation of this site, but there’s much more. | | |
| ▲ | amanaplanacanal 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | This is a free to use site. How many moderators do you think they would have to hire to do the work you think they should be doing? | | |
| ▲ | nsowz 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | They shouldn’t allow users to moderate the site, even if it means longer response times to remove spam, since it very commonly leads to the users abusing that power to remove things that they do not like even if they do not break the rules. That happens very often and the moderators are okay with it because allowing users to remove other users’ content so it goes with the “editorial line” of the commenters of the site lowers dissent and therefore they have to work less. | | |
| ▲ | gessha 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | A perfectly secure system is one you can’t use. Another version is: The optimal amount of fraud is non-zero. |
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| ▲ | swed420 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | You sure seem to have an axe to grind with this site in particular, when in reality it is not wholly better or worse than any other social media / discussion platform. In fact, in some ways it's somewhat innovative with some really simple ideas that help distinguish it from the rest. I don't know why you think moderators should work for free. That's up to the platform to decide. Also, I'd take the lenience found on HN any day over the ban hammer / shadow ban / user siloing approaches that others sites cave to. As we've seen, there is no perfect approach. | | |
| ▲ | nsowz 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | First, nowhere in my comment did I say I wanted moderators to work for free. Second, HN shadowbans all the time - they shadowban so much that regular bans do not even exist here. If they ban you, it will be a shadow ban. | | |
| ▲ | swed420 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | I'm glad we agree on the first point, and sorry if I misunderstood you on that. As for shadow banning, yes it is employed here on occasion, but I'm speaking strictly from my own experience with the site. I regularly take large steaming shits on various capital interests in favor of the hacker ethos, and so far it has always been permitted (and is not hard to verify it isn't shadow banned). That this site is the child of SV monied interests says at least something positive about their tolerance for these things compared to other sites like X/reddit/bluesky who all have the groupthink/echo chamber concept polished quite well by now. |
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| ▲ | rpdillon 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > some IP at CENTCOM How was this determined? |
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| ▲ | regularization 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | Because the IP is in the edit, and the reverse DNS went back there (and ARIN did not disagree) More info on this in my other reply. | | |
| ▲ | rolph 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | An Introduction to IP Spoofing (and How to Prevent It) https://kinsta.com/blog/ip-spoofing/ | | |
| ▲ | digitalPhonix 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | That doesn’t work for an HTTP request (or any stateful communication that requires return traffic) | | |
| ▲ | rolph 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | its a dated article, but the concept of IP spoof works, and has been modified to fit the state of tech, its more than just forging the return address in an IP header. https://owasp.org/www-community/pages/attacks/ip_spoofing_vi... https://github.com/ParsaKSH/spoof-tunnel | | |
| ▲ | cowboylowrez 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The term IP spoofing used to really only apply to some networking layer in my experience, placing bogus ips in headers was more likely called header forgery and happened in the application. It wouldn't make sense for wikipedia to rely on easily forged headers when they can simply examine the network connection and use that address. Actual IP spoofing still can't really impersonate a valid tcp connection unless its all send and no read, even with your second link, both sides of the "tunnel" have to spoof the source ip in their messages so thats not likely going to happen with wikipedia unless their security gets broken somehow and in that case well all bets are off lol | | |
| ▲ | rolph 39 minutes ago | parent [-] | | "unless their security gets broken somehow" yup you get the idea, but you dont have to break security, you can can settle for convincing him to break his own security. |
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| ▲ | digitalPhonix 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Did you read the things you're linking? > https://owasp.org/www-community/pages/attacks/ip_spoofing_vi... Isn't an actual technique, it's describing the observed result if the server were to blindly trust some HTTP headers which is just the application payload in a TCP stream. It's not spoofing the IP at any network layer. > https://github.com/ParsaKSH/spoof-tunnel Requires mutually agreed spoofing on both sides... at which point it's not really spoofing and also clearly not applicable because Wikipedia will not agree to it. (It is useful in the context that they're using it, just not at all what you're talking about) Without controling a router that's on the path or being able to publish a route that contains the IP address you're trying to spoof, there is no way to spoof an IP address in bidirectional communication. | | |
| ▲ | rolph 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | "blindly trust some HTTP headers"
"Without controling a router"
"Requires mutually agreed spoofing on both sides" you understand the concepts, and the requirements for POC, but you are not the only one. and for those who want a working weapon,they will have to identify ALL the requirements and implement it themselves. im not about to leave the weapon loaded and fully assembled in a public place. it sounds like you are fully capable of manufacturing that weapon if you really wanted to. also people really are soft, it starts with soc eng, and goes from there. |
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| ▲ | cmrdporcupine 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It's almost like both imperialist powers could be problematic and awful and we don't have to pick a side or excuse the actions of the one because the other does the same. |
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| ▲ | ascorbic 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It's possible for both to be bad and yet one to be worse | |
| ▲ | shevy-java 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | In general imperalism is annoying to no ends. Smaller countries get abused. I think this is not really connected to Wikipedia. Wikipedia has a quality-control problem; even if all state-actors were not to try to ruin Wikipedia, that quality-control issue would still persist. Wikipedia needs to improve its intrinsic quality. Instead what it seems to do as of late, is make pointless UI changes. I hate this "you can hide the toolkit here" - that simply should not be on by default. I only want the content as-is, not side bars with useless things I am never going to use anyway. | | |
| ▲ | drysine 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | >In general imperalism is annoying to no ends. Smaller countries get abused. And in turn abuse even smaller nations like Georgia abused South Ossetia and Abkhazia. And these tiny nations abused their Georgian minorities |
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| ▲ | kelipso 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The fact that the bad actions of only one of the sides is so widely broadcasted must be explicitly noted though. We should not be living in some perpetual Gell-Mann Amnesia state where we just react to the current news report in whatever appropriate manner while forgetting all of the old news, history, and so on around it. | | |
| ▲ | cmrdporcupine 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | I mean that's clearly not the case. I'm swimming in anti-imperialist anti-US content. That it doesn't lead to mass action and the end of the current state of the American regime is a domestic American population problem, not a missing information problem. There is no poverty of information. The fact of the matter is a powerful section of the US population benefits from the current situation. | | |
| ▲ | jzb 8 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | “There is no poverty of information.” Quite the opposite, in fact. But there’s a difference between the information being present somewhere, and a reasonable way to get that information in front of people in an actionable form. We’re drowning in “information,” at present. But the mass media narratives that are most readily available distort things quite a bit for a lot of reasons. (Ratings, owner bias/interference, format.) | |
| ▲ | kelipso 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | There is no poverty of information depending on your news bubble. | | |
| ▲ | shevy-java 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | Everything is a news bubble though. People incur bias from anywhere. Wikipedia just, in general, has less spin usually than some private media outlet. |
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| ▲ | Pay08 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | See, from my perspective, that is exactly the problem. The people pushing said "anti-imperialist, anti-US" content are often the same people that defend Putin's invasion of Ukraine. The reality however, is that these are niche bubbles empowered by the internet. Once we realise how harmful they are, they'll be moderated or cut off. |
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| ▲ | Permit 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| [flagged] |
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| ▲ | jampekka 9 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Seems to be very critical of western, and especially American, foreign policy. Reasonably well argued and factual, although a bit edgy at times. A decent read. | | | |
| ▲ | Chinjut 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | What about it? | |
| ▲ | elzbardico 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Yes, it seems to be critical of American policies. so what? |
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| ▲ | 9879875665876 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| [flagged] |
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| ▲ | pphysch 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | I remember a time when Western civilization meant at least a patina of "civilization", and now it's all brazen savagery like this. Cui bono? |
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