Generally lawyers need to be involved to make sure any rejections are compliant. There's a whole cottage industry around this.

Personally, given the state of unemployment in the tech sector right now, I think it should be virtually impossible to fill a PERM right now because pretty much any position could be filled with a US LPR or citizen and the only reason it isn't is because the whole process is deliberately obfuscated or artificial barriers are put up purposefully to disqualify candidates.

I also think that doing layoffs in the US should disqualify you from doing any PERM or sponsoring any visa for 2-3 years.

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BeetleB 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> I also think that doing layoffs in the US should disqualify you from doing any PERM or sponsoring any visa for 2-3 years.

This is a very SW mindset, and makes no sense in other circumstances.

If my company canceled a large SW project, and laid off a lot of SW folks, why should that prevent them from sponsoring someone to work on nanoelectronics?

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bubblethink 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Since we are doing wishes and grievances, why have PERM at all?

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jmyeet 2 hours ago | parent [-]

The specificied purpose of PERM is to to fill a position that otherwiswe can't be filled by a US LPR or citizen..

If you need to hide your job postings on an internal physical caulk board in a basement and post them in only physical copies of The Columbus Dispatch then it should be pretty clear you're not following the spirit of the program. If, even after doing that, you then disqualify candidates for pretty fake reasons and you somehow still have qualified candidates so you pull the position and try again in 6-12 months then you should absolutely fail a USCIS audit and you should lose your privileges for hiring foreign workers and sponsoring people for residency, at least for a time.

Legitimate employers and jobs can't get a visa in the H1B lottery because of widespread visa abuse. People from certain countries (particularly India) have to wait 10-15+ years because of abuse of the system. Fake employers with H1B schemes, bodyshops that really pay below prevailing wage and can keep Indian-born people as effectively indentured servants, spamming the system with H1B applications because they don't really care how many they get.

We're in permanent layoff culture now where pretty much every sufficiently-sized employer will probably fire 5-10% of their staff every year while still hiring people. This is to suppress wages and make people do more work for free. There should be a cost to this.

If you're an immigrant, a completely arbitrary layoff can be devastating. You have a short period to find a new job and if you don't, you have to leave the country. Employers who will do that to immigrants shouldn't be alloweed to hire immigrants.

You can be both pro-immigration and anti-immigration abuse.

	▲	bubblethink 2 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		You are conflating several unrelated issues. In your previous post, you expressed how you wish PERM worked ("I also think that doing layoffs in the US should disqualify you from doing any PERM or sponsoring any visa for 2-3 years."), to which my response was why have PERM at all. You are still talking about how you wish the world worked. There are a lot of shoulds in your reply. PERM, H-1B, etc. all exist as a carefully brokered compromise bw different factions that want different things. It is the correct amount of broken by design. Posting in a Sunday newspaper is a requirement in the regulations. Everyone is in the right amount of compliance to maintain equilibrium. There are any number of things that could be or should be, but aren't.
	▲	BeetleB 2 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		> People from certain countries (particularly India) have to wait 10-15+ years because of abuse of the system. Well, the abuse is mostly happening for the benefit of people from India. But yes, it sucks that the "good" people from India have to wait a long time because of the system being abused to get the "not-so-good" Indians. Keep in mind, though, that you're conflating H1-B with PERM. There isn't a 10-15 year wait for H1-B.