Most people in the US are pulled into living on credit straight out of school. You get a student loan, then a car loan, then a credit card, then a mortgage. You finance vacations, appliances, kitchen remodels, smartphones - mostly to keep up with friends and coworkers who finance their lifestyles too. A lot of people are in non-stop debt from the age of 18 to 55, if not longer. By most estimates, only about 10-20% of US households are debt-free.

Spending and getting into debt are useful tools. But I don't have any friends in tech who need to be told "hey dude, you should be spending more". I have quite a few friends who would be better off spending less.

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freetime2 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

For sure it's more common for people not to save enough. But for people who are frugal and save diligently for most of their lives, there often comes a point where they cross a threshold where they have met all of their financial goals, and the "problem" is no longer how save money but to enjoy spending it. And this can be a real challenge for people who have built up deeply ingrained saving habits.

My mother, for example, refuses to replace her iPhone SE with something with a larger screen despite 1) having failing vision and difficulty reading the screen, 2) using her iPhone every day, 3) easily being able to afford it. The idea of spending $1,000 on a phone is just something she is unable to bring herself to do, even though I think it would help alleviate a real source of frustration in her life.

My father, when he started shopping for his most recent car (and probably his final car), set out with the intent to buy a luxury car. But again, despite being able to easily afford one, all he was able to bring himself to buy was a well-equipped Toyota. Don't get me wrong - it's a great car and has served him incredibly well. But it makes me a little sad that he wasn't able to bring himself to finally treat himself to a luxury car after a lifetime of hard work and saving. They did a lot of long road trips together in that car in retirement, and I think they would have enjoyed something a bit more luxurious (though on the other hand, the reliability of the Toyota is not to be discounted).

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chromacity 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I think what you're attributing to frugality might be a more a matter of age? Many older folks are just wary of change.

I'm not that old, but every time I upgrade my PC or phone, some of my workflows break and I need to pointlessly re-learn things I'd rather not re-learn. UI buttons get moved around, icons change, some settings are removed and others are added... this was exciting the first ten or twenty times, but it's just tiring now.

Basically, I'm at this stage in life where my reaction to systemd wasn't "oh wow, this is progress" but "ugh, I need to learn how to start, stop, or modify services again". In another ten years, I'll probably just say "no, I'm not doing this again, just let me use my old computer for as long as possible".

	▲	freetime2 2 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		Possibly there’s an element to this. The iPhone SE still has the home button, which may have been a factor when she bought it. And my father was a bit put off by some of the bells and whistles on luxury cars.
	▲	skirmish 4 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		> my reaction to systemd wasn't "oh wow, this is progress" but "ugh, I need to learn how to start, stop, or modify services again" I must be young at heart while >60 years old; my reaction was "why is everybody whining about it, it's pretty nice, I like it". Same with jj vs git, jj is amazing!

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tonyedgecombe 27 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

When I started driving my car had vinyl seats that you had to peel yourself out of on a hot day, a plastic steering wheel that you could barely touch when the sun was out, hand wound windows, fixed seat belts and a handbrake that barely worked.

Even the cheapest car on the market feels luxurious now.

In comparison the difference between a Toyota and a Lexus is marginal.

Expensive cars are mostly about status signalling, we are long past good enough.

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normie3000 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I agree your mother should get a new phone with a big screen, but what qualifies as a luxury car? There are Toyotas that cost 6 figures USD.

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freetime2 3 hours ago | parent [-]

I think he was considering a Lexus RX. I doubt he even looked at BMW, Mercedes, etc (not really his style).

His Toyota was probably under $40k. This was back when cars were quite a bit less expensive than now. Nice car for sure, but the Lexus probably would have been a bit more refined.

	▲	wiseowise 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		How old is your old man?

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kashunstva 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

My own parents are in their late 90’s. Because they grew up in the wake of the Great Depression, I always assumed their extreme frugality was a function of the economic distress in their formative years. They also properly accounted for the fact that old-age care is very expensive. Parenthetically, most do not seem to anticipate that accelerated burn rate near the EOL. It’s also a phase whose duration is hard to predict.

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benj111 19 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

But what is 'luxury'? You may have in mind a Rolls Royce. But maybe he doesn't want that.

If they've been frugal their entire life, they aren't as far along the hedonistic treadmill, a new reliable car is a luxury.

If you're used to darning socks, buying new socks is a luxury.

If I buy a PS2 today, why is that not a splurge, if I didn't have one previously? Yes it doesn't have the best graphics but it's a step up from my PS1. Getting the latest and greatest just because, is keeping up with the Joneses. And that's a path to spending money, not happiness.

The knowledge that you have enough in your bank account if things go to pot, itself brings happiness

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Evidlo 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Or get a previous gen used iPhone, then she can have both a big screen and feel good about the cheap phone.

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vi_sextus_vi 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

(EDITED)

Otoh, have a few friends in tech (and high finance) who need to be told "dude, we'd be better off if you worked less hard"

(Sorry.. I grew up deprived of data teaching me that "Schlep quickly compounds into Interesting Times")

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jimbob45 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Having a credit card is like having a video game passive that makes everything permanently 2% cheaper. Everything should be put on a credit card for that discount as well as fraud protection provided you are disciplined enough to never ever ever ever ever ever carry a balance.

	▲	pjc50 13 minutes ago \| parent \| next [-]
		This is US-specific advice; EU capped merchant fees, and therefore you don't get a free 2% reward at their expense. The fraud protection and insurance can be useful though.
	▲	benj111 9 minutes ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		I don't get the down voters, it is, or should be a tool. Although we are talking about it being an issue. Which you have already covered. Problem is, most people don't spend that much time thinking about it. So I suspect "don't get a credit card" or "only use it in emergencies" are generally good advice. Although perhaps we should just be better at teaching house hold type finance