The nice thing about open protocols is that we don't have to endorse or use one implementation over another, yet, somehow, the browser monopoly continues to be a standing dilemma.

There are nice projects, like ungoogled chromium, tor, and many more, but I find the biggest issue is that there isn't a voice out there for the average person and a project that connects with the masses.

I think another issue is that a lot of the uninformed users have a strong apathy for the causes and ways the message is delivered, they rather engage and connect with things that are "fun" and want less friction rather than freedom and control.

How do we solve this? How do we make the browser ours, by the people, and for the people?

Sorry, I'm just sad whenever I think of this.

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Joe_Cool 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It's somehow even worse when you compile your own browser. Want Spotify or Netflix? You need Widevine with attestation. Go pay Google.

Your Browser Agent string isn't Chrome or Firefox? Enjoy endless Cloudflare captchas or just a 403 error.

	▲	codedokode an hour ago \| parent [-]
		Yes, how sovereign national browsers (not depending on US companies and not sending data to US) can be be developed in this situation?

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pjmlp 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

We start by not shipping Chrome with "native" applications instead of learning the platform APIs.

Followed by creating Web applications based on Web standards, instead of whatever Chrome does, and then complain about Firefox and Safari not being up to the game.

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franga2000 3 hours ago | parent [-]

I really don't see how Electron is connected here. When you're an Electron app, you really don't have to care about which web APIs Chrome implements, you can just use the native NodeJS equivalents, which will usually give you a better UX anyways.

But absolutely on the second point. A standard with one implementation is not a standard. Regardless of market share, in a market with three providers, if two out of three don't support something, you have no business using it. It unhealthy for everyone involved.

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pjmlp 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Electron is Chrome packaged with the application.

If those devs cared about Web standards, it would be a pure Web application, or an headless executable, system/daemon conecting to the system's browser.

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franga2000 2 hours ago | parent [-]

I'm not saying the Electron UX is better than a native app. I'm saying Electron apps using NodeJS libs have better UX to Electron apps using Web APIs. At best there's no difference for the user, but at worst, they get permission popups and limited access just like they would in a browser.

This is why Electron app devs prefer NodeJS libs to Web APIs and consequently have no impact on the adoption of a large chunk of the new Web APIs (not counting DOM and CSS things because those are rarely controversial and usually broadly implemented).

So yes, those devs don't care about these kinds of new web "standards", because they don't work with them. The people who use them are the ones who are dangerous and that's almost exclusively web app authors, because they can't just pull in a native library to do the same things.

	▲	pjmlp an hour ago \| parent [-]
		Which browser engine uses V8?

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matheusmoreira 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> How do we solve this? How do we make the browser ours, by the people, and for the people?

Simple. Break up all the big tech corporations via anti-trust legislation. They are the robber barons of our time.

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jedimastert 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> How do we solve this? How do we make the browser ours, by the people, and for the people?

Unfortunately, the answer is pretty much always "real public funding"

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armchairhacker 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You have a decent browser. The average person has Chrome. Those who do care switch to the former. What needs to be solved?

> voice out there for the average person and a project that connects with the masses

> they rather engage and connect with things that are "fun" and want less friction rather than freedom and control

Do you see the contradiction? The average person "connects with" less friction rather than control.

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hmokiguess 3 hours ago | parent [-]

I understand what you’re saying, though there’s a quote that hurts me whenever I try and reason about it this way, which is:

"We must all fear evil men, but there is another kind of evil, which we must fear most, and that is, the indifference of good men”

	▲	armchairhacker 3 hours ago \| parent [-]
		You don't have to be indifferent. I think making GNU etc. more accessible for the person who is average except that they prefer control is noble.

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ilaksh 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

https://github.com/runvnc/tersenet