I wonder if this is a generational thing of fresh young people that already cannot live without LLMs versus crusty old people that don’t want to require a super computer just to run a web browser that violates all their privacy.

To me this sounds like the point where people start looking at and developing alternatives to the browser/web.

▲ dannyw 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This isn’t Mozilla taking a stance against AI.

It’s them articulating clear and logical reasons why the proposed API, in its current state, is bad for web interoperability.

▲ ilaksh 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Did they propose a specific alternative (non-extension) API?

▲ jedimastert 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Why would they? This is an issue put up on the "standards-position" repo. They requested a position on a proposed standard, and Mozilla gave it.

▲ rafram an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There’s one obvious alternative:

   fetch("https://api.openai.com/v1/chat/completions", { ... });

	▲	ilaksh an hour ago \| parent [-]
		Right and that means people have to send their data to an external service. Give it X months (or years??) and people will realize this is actually a privacy/data autonomy issue. It's just dominated right now by the anti-AI/anti-technology sentiment in the west. That will gradually go away as more people use AI and robotics and realize how wrong they were about it.

▲ madeofpalk 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

No, that’s not how this process usually happens.

▲ aljaz823 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Why would they need to?

▲ hatmanstack an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

So I guess the question would be, "What makes this acceptable Tech". I don't know how you get there without offering some type of "Search" like choice for open models. We all know how that turned out.

Maybe Mozilla can save itself by getting paid to serve Google's model as default rather than another providers. Would replace the revenue stream they lost.

▲ jaffathecake 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think the objection here is unrelated to the love or hate of LLMs. It's about the viability of this particular proposed open web API.

I personally use LLMs for coding assistance, and some home automation stuff, but I do not think this particular API is good for the web.

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ilaksh 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Meaning you do not want text generation in the web API at all, or you think the prompt API needs to be different? And if so can you give one sentence on how it should change?

https://github.com/runvnc/tersenet

If you glance at that then you may see that I am for the idea of leaner alternatives to the current web platform.

But in the context of the existing web API which has just about everything and the whole kitchen sink in it (hundreds of sub-APIs), I do not think it will really help anyone at this point just just stop adding features, especially major ones.

The web is basically an overlay operating system and has been for many years.

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jedimastert 2 hours ago | parent [-]

> Meaning you do not want text generation in the web API at all, or you think the prompt API needs to be different?

Not OP but I think you are misunderstanding the interaction as a whole here. The Chromium team made a proposal, then the Chromium team asked the Firefox team for a position on the proposal. Whether or not the Firefox team or anyone on the Firefox team has any goals around AI or whatever, this response was simply "We do not like this proposal for these reasons..."

How to fix those issues really isn't the Firefox team's job and also wasn't part of the question asked by the Chromium team.

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ilaksh an hour ago | parent [-]

You didn't read my comment carefully enough. It was not about AI in general. It was about the text generation API. And it is perfectly reasonable to ask if he wants to reject the feature entirely or if he can give a one sentence overview of how it might be fixed.

There are a lot of people reading his position. One or two additional clarifying sentences to spell it out for people skimming is not such an unreasonable ask.

	▲	jedimastert 7 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		> There are a lot of people reading his position. One or two additional clarifying sentences to spell it out for people skimming is not such an unreasonable ask. I do think it is a bit unwarranted, actually. This isn't a press release, it's a technical discussion somewhat deep into a technical process that's open for archival purposes. His audience is not people skimming through, it's the Chromium team and other members of the standards body. You're sort of overhearing a conversation and injecting yourself into it.

▲ recursivegirth an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

A little off-topic, I honestly don't think it's as much as the browser interface that needs to be reworked as it is the idea of operating systems in general.

I don't know what the right answer is, but having used Niri/Wayland vs. GNOME vs. Windows vs. Mac... I will never go back to a non-tiling desktop and a none-kb driven workflow for desktop window management.

▲ tomashubelbauer 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

IME young people mostly hate AI.

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archargelod 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Young people love AI when it helps them cheat homework, or when used for roleplay and memes. Generating "content" with AI - is generally more hated, especially art and video.

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austin-cheney 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Sounds hypocritical.

	▲	tokai 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		I hate knives cause they kill people, but I love my kitchen knife when I make dinner.

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kilroy123 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The young kids I know who are into tech love AI. Albeit this is from a small sample size.

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DaSHacka 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Funnily enough, most of the young people I know fall somewhere between those two sides of the spectrum.

I know some actual luddite-tier AI haters that believe it's ontologically evil, and another majoring in Data Science that went to the most recent career fair and told a recruiter "AI will replace you" (I uh don't think he's getting that internship)

And of course many, many, others that fall between the two extremes.

The one thing we can all agree on, is it makes homework a hell of a lot easier :) (well, except the luddite-types, they refuse to use it in any capacity)

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whatisthiseven 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The biggest irony with telling a recruiter they'll be replaced, is how much easier a data scientist is to replace with LLMs. With their sycophantic nature, execs will eat up whatever "data" the LLMs make up, too.

	▲	mbbutler 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		No, you don't understand. LLMs will never be capable of knowing what questions to ask, only how to ask the questions. /s

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bsenftner 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I'm a member of a political action committee, where I was brought in as an expert in professional media applications of AI. I've got extensive experience using AI tools in the production of well known entertainment properties (think VFX for film and animation.) Anyway, within the political action committee where is a diverse mixture of people, with about 1/5th of them under age 30. The entire under age 30 set are so AI negative, to such an irrational degree, I have been asked to do nothing and offer no advice that incorporates any technology at all. They are so paranoid. In a not really emotional discussion, a bunch of them erupted in tears, they are so irrational about it.

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bakugo 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Do they really? Hating on AI slop is a common sentiment on social media, but remember that the opinions you see on social media are often not representative of what the general population thinks at all.

I keep hearing stories about how homework is now useless because every student just gets ChatGPT to do it for them, and from personal experience, I'm inclined to believe them.

	▲	8organicbits 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		> every student just gets ChatGPT to do it I don't believe every student uses a calculator to solve their math homework, so what makes ChatGPT unique here? For certain subjects the ability to cheat has been trivial for a long time, yet there was no crisis.

▲ GaryBluto 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> that don’t want to require a super computer just to run a web browser that violates all their privacy.

That shipped sailed in 2008.