| ▲ | BugsJustFindMe 11 hours ago |
| It would cost less to provide free breakfast and lunch to all public school students in the US, but that might actually improve the country's future instead of blowing things up. |
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| ▲ | tptacek 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| We spend drastically more money than this on education; it isn't even in the same ballpark. People get tripped up about this because the funding comes from different taxing bodies (most education funding is state and local) --- but all taxation is linked. We also couldn't fully fund free school meals for this sum, this sum is an ambit claim by the administration not a budget, and a large component of this funding request is for capital expenditures, not ongoing operational expenditure. The (larger) school meal funding dollars would have to be paid regularly. |
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| ▲ | BugsJustFindMe 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Please don't compare the entirety of the US education system against an incremental fragment of military spending as though that isn't a completely bogus evaluation. We spend just as much on the war machine if not more. We're talking about an incremental fragment of the US military budget. It's fair to compare it to an incremental fragment of public wellness that would cost less and have profound impact. > and a large component of this funding request is for capital expenditures, not ongoing operational expenditure Oh, of course. You're right. I forgot that drones have zero operational costs and that military spending will decrease next year instead of increasing again and again and again like always. | | |
| ▲ | tptacek 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | Put real numbers to this. We spend well over a trillion dollars on education. Also recognize the falsity of attributing the entire defense budget to "the war machine". There are policy debates that could take you lower or (like this request) higher, but it's not like an order-of-magnitude thing. | | |
| ▲ | BugsJustFindMe 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > We spend well over a trillion dollars on education. And we spend well over a trillion dollars on defense. And yet the straight of hormuz is still closed, just like there are still children who don't have enough food and suffer for it. Comparing the total budget of one thing against a budget delta of another thing is wrong. Compare deltas of each and compare their benefits. | | | |
| ▲ | TimorousBestie 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | If we’re putting numbers on things, what’s the number you’re putting on “pure, non-war-machine” defense spending? |
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| ▲ | ljf 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The rough cost to provide free breakfast and lunch to all students in the US is $30b - so as the go says, less than $55b. | |
| ▲ | anigbrowl 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Capex becomes opex if the enemy is shooting your drones down or if you're using disposable drones to deliver fatal payloads. | |
| ▲ | fontain 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | School meal funding would not cost more than $55bn or even close to $55bn. California’s program, subtracting initial implementation cost, was close to $1bn to feed ~10% of U.S. public school students 2 free meals per day. $55bn couldn’t fund a free school meal program indefinitely but I am sure the ongoing costs of the drone program could, this $55bn isn’t a one time cost. |
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| ▲ | analogpixel 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| If we took all the money we spent on war for 2 years, and diverted it to buying $10k electric cars, we could buy everyone in America an electric car, remove our dependence on oil, and thus never need to fight wars for it ever again; let other countries fight it out for oil while we move on to bigger and better things. or we could continue spending all of our money on wars to get oil, fall further and further behind, and be living like the Flintstons in a few years while all the other countries that actually invested in useful stuff forge forward. |
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| ▲ | jandrewrogers 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > remove our dependence on oil, and thus never need to fight wars for it The US is the largest oil producer in the world by a significant margin. They don't have a dependency on foreign oil. They are also the largest refiner of oil products in the world. Any wars related to oil are about other countries' dependence on foreign oil and refining. | | |
| ▲ | BugsJustFindMe 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > The US is the largest oil producer in the world by a significant margin. The US is also the second largest oil importer in the world. A true fact about oil is that it's not all the same, so lumping them all into a single category is a mistake when talking about production/refining/consumption. > They don't have a dependency on foreign oil. It does still, because local refining is optimized for a global market not domestic self-sufficiency. It would probably require a bit of the old "seizing the means of production" to change that, and the US is generally opposed to such things. | | |
| ▲ | phil21 9 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Local refining is setup for refining heavier crudes. They can process sweet domestic crudes just fine at a technical level. It would be an economic loss due to underutilized stuff like Cokers, and likely at somewhat reduced overall throughput. Light crude is typically more expensive than heavy which accounts for much of the theoretical economic loss, but perhaps that will be inverted for some time if trends continue. You would lose some of the bottom of the barrel products like asphalt and the high sulphur products sour crudes have as well, but I'm unsure of how impactful that would be in practice. I'm certainly no petroleum engineer so I'm sure someone will be along to correct me - but I looked into this when I kept seeing this trotted out. You can definitely refine domestic light crude oils in local refineries setup for heavier crudes. The resulting products will simply be more expensive due to the refinery operating less efficiently. Self-sufficiency for fuel products at least is likely not a major concern for the US if the shit hits the fan for real. | |
| ▲ | jandrewrogers 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > The US is also the second largest oil importer in the world. The US sells oil refinery services to the rest of the world. They "import" crude oil and then "export" the refined product. US refinery capacity far exceeds its domestic oil production. What did you think they were doing with all that capacity? | | |
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| ▲ | anigbrowl 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Any wars related to oil are about other countries' dependence on foreign oil and refining. This implies that only they have an interest in starting oil wars, but of course it suits the US to be able to inflict supply shocks on other countries. This is an ancient military strategy which the US has leveraged in the past, eg in the runup to WW2. Under the current administration however, it seems to be imposing them indiscriminately, hurting erstwhile allies as well as opponents. | |
| ▲ | analogpixel 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | If we don't need foreign oil, why are gas prices going up? | | |
| ▲ | tim-tday 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | Oil companies reported record profits this week. Surely that’s unrelated? | | |
| ▲ | nullocator 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Are there any times in recent memory where they didn't report record profits though? Maybe they posted record profits despite the war not because of it (I don't think I actually believe this, not who knows). |
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| ▲ | tim-tday 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | We had no need to fight Iran to begin with. We just did it as a bro move to support a buddy. And it isn’t over oil it’s over Israel being sick of Iran funding groups that continuously launch rockets at their cities. (Which, frankly I get, but maybe not enough to crash the global economy) | | |
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| ▲ | GerryAdamsSF 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| US schools are some of the best funded in the world. The causative relationship of funding on student performance is not strong. Social programs such as Medicare, SSI, etc dwarf the military budget. |
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| ▲ | BugsJustFindMe 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | > The causative relationship of funding on student performance is not strong. Please don't pretend that "school funding" is the same as feeding children or that we don't have established research showing a connection between school meal programs and improved academic performance and reduced student suspensions. | | |
| ▲ | GerryAdamsSF 9 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I argue that academic performance, and more importantly intelligence in general, is largely hereditary, as shown in twin studies. I am not concerned with trivia like GPAs or suspensions. Student capability is inherent to their genetics. The Soviet system created brilliant scientists for a fraction of the US system. | | |
| ▲ | tim-tday 8 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | You are misreading the science. The parental effect only shows up for the immediate parents not grandparents. Hereditary causes would result in persistent effects. The cause is therefore not genetics but rather family environment. (See studies of children of immigrants) Successful and wealthy parents support their children, giving them a calm and supportive environment in which to excel. (Poor parents who do that have high achieving children even if they themselves didn’t achieve at a high level). It’s not genetics it’s environment. | |
| ▲ | hackable_sand 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | It's not, you just have a supremacist world view that requires alternative facts to stay coherent. |
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| ▲ | rayiner 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | We spend $100 billion a year on SNAP, which goes primarily to feeding children and mothers. Why is it so important to you to structure the program in one way (providing kids lunches in school) versus feeding kids a different way (providing parents cash to feed their kids)? | | |
| ▲ | FireBeyond 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | On one hand, studies on outcomes... ... on the other, your "way of life". But why, to answer your question? Because those studies show, among other thing, that a non-negligible number of parents, given cash, can't or won't use it to feed their kids. | | |
| ▲ | rayiner 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Why should a system that's already designed for a fraction of the population be further beholden to an even smaller fraction of the population? The SNAP system we have is good, and it's generous. The SNAP benefit for my family of five (two adults, three kids) would be $1,183 a month, which is about what we spend on groceries shopping at ALDI and LIDL. It's good to let parents choose how to use that money to feed their kids, instead of the government imposing a top-down, one-size-fits all system. | | |
| ▲ | anigbrowl 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Why do conservatives hate doing anything for children so much? WTF. He gave you a clear answer which you just ignored so you could repeat your ideal of how things should work instead of addressing the realities of how they do. You are smart enough to understand the difference, but chose to give a BS reply. |
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| ▲ | rayiner 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I would love to have a Japan-style universal lunch program. But this point is an empty appeal to emotion. Kids are being fed. The U.S. spends $100 billion a year on SNAP and $18 billion a year on the National School Lunch Program. We just focus most of the money on cash benefits to parents of children rather than feeding kids at school. |
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| ▲ | nullocator 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Not sure whether you're intentionally spreading misinformation on this subject or not, but based on who I'm responding to it probably is intentional. Anyways in contrast to "Kids are being fed". Almost 14% of children in the U.S. face food insecurity according to the U.S. government. There is real evidence this improved during covid when the government did offer additional funding for school provided meals. The number of food insecure children is on the rise. And every year republican administered states make it harder to obtain and maintain SNAP and WIC benefits whether you qualify or not. So no it's not an appeal to emotion because there is real data that disagrees with you, and no the kids arent universally being fed. I'm glad you and your family are so secure in your situation you can comfortably argue against children receiving meals on the internet. But for some of us any number of children going hungry for any reason is too many, it's not justifiable as "good enough" or "we spend enough" if there are still hungry children whom have no control of the situation themselves. |
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| ▲ | kybb4 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| "Why does man have reason if he can only be influenced by violence?" |