Meanwhile in Germany: Let's stick to combustion engines for at least 10 more years with 500km range and a multiple of energy and maintenance costs...

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objclxt 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

> Meanwhile in Germany: Let's stick to combustion engines for at least 10 more years with 500km range and a multiple of energy and maintenance costs...

BMW is heavily invested in Neue Klasse[1], the iX3 has a long waiting list and a 800KM range.

[1]:https://www.bmwgroup.com/en/company/neue-klasse.html

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lschueller 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Good for BMW, isn't it? According to my excel sheet 800km range is still less than 1000km range, for double, triple the price compared to a Byd?!

	▲	breve 2 days ago \| parent \| next [-]
		The range estimates use different test procedures. BMW's quoted range uses the WLTP test procedure. China's CLTC test procedure is much more generous. As noted in the article: > "The Seal 08’s claimed 1,000+ km CLTC range translates to roughly 620+ miles — though real-world figures under EPA or WLTP testing would be lower. For reference, the recently updated Mercedes-Benz EQS 450+ claims 926 km under WLTP (575 miles) with its new 800V architecture and 118 kWh battery." To compare the range properly you need to do a real world test of the vehicles on the same circuit in the same conditions.
	▲	fragmede 2 days ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		What's your spreadsheet's coefficient for emotions like fun? BMW doesn't sell cars so much as they sell a brand. It's an emotional play for buyers to need "The Ultimate Driving Machine™."

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lostlogin 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Why does it have to be so massive?

But who am I kidding? I’m not their target audience.

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httpz 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Their design department needs an intervention

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bjohnson225 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

At this point it seems EV economics will make the EU government mandates irrelevant. Electric cars will be cheaper to buy and cheaper to run. The only remaining question is how quickly rapid charging infra will be deployed which will make electric the default choice even for those of us who cannot charge at home.

	▲	ZeroGravitas 2 days ago \| parent \| next [-]
		The point of the mandates is to ensure that the EU car companies survive. It's basic game theory, you all commit to ramping up delivery of EVs at the same time because one of you could benefit in the short term if you defect, so without the law everyone does so and everyone loses.
	▲	SideburnsOfDoom 2 days ago \| parent \| prev \| next [-]
		> Electric cars will be cheaper to buy and cheaper to run. Yes they will be, some time around now or the recent past, depending on country. Source: https://dmnews.co.uk/electric-cars-are-now-officially-cheape... https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2026/apr/17/new-uk-e...
	▲	fragmede 2 days ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		High prices for electricity in Europe means that's not necessarily the case. If the cost of a tank of gasoline is the same as, or even cheaper, than an equivalent charge of the battery pack, how many people are going to be convinced to go electric?

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tim333 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There's something to be said for letting the market decide. Something like a carbon tax would probably be a more economically effective way of dealing with CO2 than arbitrarily choosing this of that industry as a winner which hasn't exactly worked in terms of controlling carbon emissions. I think they are up about 80% since people started going on about them.

I'm an example of someone who doesn't fit the obvious ban combustion engine model. I own a German combustion engine car but don't use it much as I mostly get around by ebike + train.

Tax carbon rather than dictating which technology! My biggest emissions are probably gas heating and flights both of which have approx 0% tax so forcing me to get an electric car isn't really going to fix that. I'm not really a climate doomer but if you are, current policies are a good way to get doom.

	▲	ZeroGravitas 2 days ago \| parent [-]
		Germany has a carbon tax* on fuel for cars. It will merge with the EU scheme when that expands to this sector and home heating in 2027. And that EU scheme already covers aviation, though it's phased in with exemptions etc. so doesn't cover everything. *Technically an emission trading scheme but these are basically equivalent to carbon taxes in effect.

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bestouff 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Heavily invested. The iX3 is made in China.

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neya 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

I thought EV's also have maintenance costs and energy costs?

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pjc50 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Much less so than combustion engines, unless you're not able to charge at home.

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lpcvoid 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

My EV gets charged by energy made in Germany and EU, that's the difference.

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spwa4 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

(0.33 to .35 euro per kwh, .4 on an old contract, double the price in France or US, and more than legendarily expensive Switzerland. Still way cheaper than the same range in gas btw)

	▲	mschild 2 days ago \| parent [-]
		If charging at home. Bring in fast chargers or a lot of the commercial offerings into the mix and you're looking at .6 per kWh. Never mind the subscription/account bullshit a lot of companies are doing. Regardless of that, I would still only ever buy an EV when I get a new car.

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Markoff 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

where are the battery materials from?

	▲	defrost 2 days ago \| parent \| next [-]
		Australia via China for a decent amount of it. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spodumene
	▲	Mashimo 2 days ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		Marocco maybe?

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emil-lp 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Both maintenance and charging are negligible costs.

	▲	a96 2 days ago \| parent [-]
		Yes. Even with the ludicrous subsidies and support from governments, ICEs are a nightmare to feed and maintain. (And inefficient and massively polluting.)

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subscribed 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

How much does the major service cost, if we remember it includes engine and the entire transmission?

What other maintenance costs can you think of?

And how much does it cost to drive 500 miles in the electric car charged at £0.08/kWh vs diesel at 50 mpg (£1.91/L) or petrol car at 35 mpg (£1.58/L)?

	▲	neya 2 days ago \| parent [-]
		So, one of the reasons I asked is because the motors used in EV's also are usually embedded inside transmissions which require regular oil changes (like any gearbox) and the motor itself needs to be serviced every x years - or even be replaced. These motors house Neodymium magnets - which is a rare earth metal. Although, some designs like in the earlier Teslas used coils for both the stator and the rotor using a switched reluctance design. Plus, you have to service the steering column, wheels, bearings, etc. Not saying these are equal to ICE costs - definitely not. I just thought even EVs had to get regular maintenance as they are fundamentally the same apart from the drivetrain itself.

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SideburnsOfDoom 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

There are the words "a multiple of" in the parent post, just before the words "energy and maintenance costs"

Which means that ICE Vehicle energy and maintenance costs are a multiple of (i.e. several times that of) EV energy and maintenance costs.

And so EV energy and maintenance costs are a fraction of the ICE energy and maintenance costs.

You can debate this assertion if you like, but first you have to read it successfully.

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2 days ago | parent | next [-]

[deleted]

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neya 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> but first you have to read it successfully.

1/2 * x

What do you think 1/2 here is? Stick to doom.

	▲	SideburnsOfDoom 2 days ago \| parent [-]
		> What do you think 1/2 here is? I think it's a ratio between two integers. If you have a point to make here, you also first have to write it successfully.

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defrost 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

The multiplication factor can't be a third?

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SideburnsOfDoom 2 days ago | parent [-]

That's not how the phrase "x is a multiple of y" is typically used, so colloquiality speaking: no it can't be 1/3. That would be a submultiple

If your argument is about the actual running costs of EVS and ICE Vehicles: also no.

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defrost 2 days ago | parent [-]

So, it is in fact used that way sometimes then.

I have no argument, just an observation that for six decades I've always taken multiplier to possibly mean any positive, negative, or zero value, rational or irrational, etc.

	▲	SideburnsOfDoom 2 days ago \| parent [-]
		> So, it is in fact used that way sometimes then. No, and that's the point of using a different word "submultiple". > I've always taken multiplier "a multiple of" is not the same thing as "multiplier". Or "submultiple" either. Different words have different meanings. So not relevant. > to possibly mean any positive, negative, or zero value, rational or irrational, https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/multiple multiple, noun: the product of a quantity by an integer. So no.