My Stratum-0 Atomic Clock

geerlingguy 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I don't believe it's necessary to have multiple GPS antennas (one per device), unless signal path redundancy is required. A good GPS distribution box like from Time Machines or GPS Source can split the antenna signal to many devices without an issue.

A signal distribution box used from eBay is a lot cheaper than a good outdoor GPS antenna!

Though if you have enough cable and enough antennas already, no harm in having a little array like in OP.

	▲	jiveturkey 19 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		GPS antennas typically need power. GPS receivers expect to be the sole power supplier. Simple, cheap signal distribution won't handle this. There are splitters that can allow one downstream port to supply power, but that fails when that single receiver fails. There are other splitters that are active-active. I guess you're claiming that the boxes from Time Machines are such active-active devices. Those are not cheaper than an antenna! Although from the photo I'm not sure he bought the cheap antennas. Speaking from experience deploying stratum-1. Not stratum-0, but the same GPS concerns.

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mzs 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I wonder how, if at all, you can improve precision with 4 stratum-1 clocks like he author has.

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JKCalhoun 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

No mention of the cost of the CSAC GPSDO (only that it's "not cheap").

Too bad you couldn't hack the Americium module from a smoke detector and create a DIY atomic oscillator. Cesium seems to be preferred. (And I know nothing about this sort of thing.)

(EDIT: chatting with an LLM… I realize I had assumed that "atomic clocks" meant radioactive and so suggested Americium because it is easy to obtain. LLM schooled me and suggested "Rubidium oscillator modules" instead since they come up for a few hundred dollars or so on eBay. Still not the DIY approach I had hoped for—I think I am still channelling the old "Amateur Scientist" column from Scientific American from the day.)

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h3lp 29 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

The clocks need precise oscillations to measure time: the mechanical clocks used pendulums and springs; the maser clocks used precise microwave cavities; the atomic clocks that are dominating today use oscillations of electrons in selected atoms.

Americium is not a good atomic clock material---it doesn't have superior electronic transitions, and the nuclear transitions causing its radioactivity would get in the way.

Nuclear oscillations could also be used: there is a proposal to use a low-energy nuclear oscillation in Thorium; it would be more stable than electronic oscillations: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_clock

The distinction of what can or cannot be called 'radioactive' is somehow artificial: masers, atoms and nuclei all emit radiation, so they all are technically 'radioactive'. Conventionally, 'radioactive' radiation requires energies that cause ionization of common materials, usually quoted as above 10eV. The Thorium nuclear transition is actually below that, so technically it is not radioactive---but I'd still not want to sit next to such clock without some shielding, because even UV radiation with energies above 3eV is known to damage living tissue.

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geerlingguy 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Typically high hundreds / low thousands for a used GPSDO with a CSAC.

And Americium is not as useful for a timing reference, as it's not as stable as Rubidium and a lot less safe to handle. Otherwise time nuts would hoard cheap smoke detectors :)

	▲	tverbeure an hour ago \| parent \| next [-]
		I have 2 Rb GPSDOs and a few more OCXO ones, but had never heard of CSAC modules and thought that the inevitable next step would be an HP 5061A Cs clock or later model. So now you have me going to eBay in search one but all it turns up are BM25CSAC carburetors! What are the magic keywords to use in my search?
	▲	s0rce an hour ago \| parent \| prev \| next [-]
		Americium is also chemically different and may not be as practical as cesium and rubidium to ionize and trap.
	▲	JKCalhoun an hour ago \| parent \| prev \| next [-]
		Words of wisdom (from a time nut).
	▲	ButlerianJihad an hour ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		Spinthariscope https://xkcd.com/2568/

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crote an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

He seems to be using a GPS-2700[0], which has a price tag of about $5500 / €4700. I reckon you can find a better price if you get very lucky on the second-hand market, though.

[0]: https://www.microchip.com/en-us/product/GPS-2700

	▲	opello an hour ago \| parent [-]
		It strikes me as strange that the article links to [1] which appears to be the same board, absent the "Viavi" logo on the main RF can, as the Microchip product you linked. I couldn't tell with a brief look if the Viavi product is offering something like software, configuration, tuning, etc. on top of GPS-2700 product. The photo of the device on the article says "Jackson Labs" which seems to have been the previous name of "Viavi Solutions" and a review video [2] mentioned using Symmetricom atomic clock modules, which was acquired first by Microsemi (2013) and subsequently Microchip (2018)[3]. [1] https://www.viavisolutions.com/en-us/products/chip-scale-ato... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CogN630jUSs [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symmetricom