| ▲ | TheOtherHobbes 13 hours ago |
| Harrowing. For those who don't know, the Uprising was a planned resistance action to expel the Nazis from Warsaw. Supposedly it was planned in collaboration with the Russians. But the Russian army stood down while the resistance fought alone for two months. This allowed the Germans to regroup, fight back, and eventually to destroy the city, and most of the resistance itself. |
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| ▲ | TheAlchemist 12 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| That's not accurate - the uprising was not planned in collaboration with the Russians. The whole point of the uprising was to liberate Warsaw before the Russians get in, as everybody knew that Russians are not liberating Poland - they are looking to occupy the country, just as Germany did. If the Uprising was successfull, it would give a great credit and negotiating card to the Polish government. Unfortunately, Russians knew that too - that's exactly why they stopped their advance and watched the city being razed to the ground. Also unfortunately, they were right and ended up occupying Poland for the next 45 years. |
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| ▲ | shakow 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It was definitely not planned with the Soviets, for multiple reasons: - the Poles of the AK (London government loyal) were not the communist faction (Lublin government loyal), and saw the insurrection as the last chance to get a Poland out of the Soviet sphere of influence post WWII – especially after the publicization of Katyn;
- even if they had wanted, Stalin had zero interest in giving a hand to London-loyal Poles that were in frontal opposition to “his” Lublin-loyal Poles;
- the Germans were not caught flat-footed, they already knew of the insurrection preparations and therefore not only was the city well garrisoned, it would have been in any case, as it was the strategic lock of the area to hold the RKKA on the Vistula;
- and all the above is moot in any case, because the RKKA units that reached the neighborhood of Warsaw in '44 had as many chance of taking the city as the German units that reached Moscow in '41 – they were just spent and at the end of their logistic tail after months of fighting during the Bagration operation, and had no chance of successfully developing an opposed crossing of the Vistula against two Panzerkorps.
So the London-loyal Poles were in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation, and at least they were able to go with a glorious bang. Like a Marshal said, “c'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre”. |
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| ▲ | pzo 12 hours ago | parent [-] | | > So the London-loyal Poles were in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation, and at least they were able to go with a glorious bang. Many argue this uprising is nothing to be proud of and the crime of the leadership with devastating results: ~200k civilians went with this bang, and city completely wiped out. | | |
| ▲ | shakow 12 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | This is a question I don't feel qualified enough to lean one way or the other. | |
| ▲ | bjourne an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Some would argue the same way about the Gaza uprising. |
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| ▲ | consumer451 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| For more context, WWII was started as a partnership between Hitler and Stalin to partition Poland. [0] Spreading this knowledge is now illegal in Putin's Russia. [1] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pac... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_Against_Rehabilitation_of_... |
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| ▲ | mr_toad 12 hours ago | parent [-] | | It would be naive to think that either ruler intended to honour this agreement in the long run. Both sides were probably gambling on when, not if, the agreement would be broken. | | |
| ▲ | consumer451 12 hours ago | parent [-] | | Sure, that's debatable supposition. I would think that it's likely correct. What is fact is that Hitler and Stalin were military allies to start WWII. This is documented history. Would you agree with my latter statement? | | |
| ▲ | NooneAtAll3 11 hours ago | parent [-] | | meanwhile France and UK simply sat on their asses against empty unguarded border nobody cared about the poles | | |
| ▲ | consumer451 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yes, and actual history yet again subverts the dominant story: > The citizens of Poland have the highest count of individuals who have been recognized by Yad Vashem as the Polish Righteous Among the Nations, for saving Jews from extermination during the Holocaust in World War II. There are 7,232 (as of 1 January 2022) Polish men and women conferred with the honor, over a quarter of the 28,486 recognized by Yad Vashem in total. The list of Righteous Among the Nations is not comprehensive and it is estimated that hundreds of thousands of Poles concealed and aided tens of thousands of their Polish-Jewish neighbors. Many of these initiatives were carried out by individuals, but there also existed organized networks of Polish resistance which were dedicated to aiding Jews – most notably, the Żegota organization. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Righteous_Among_the_Nat... As a Pole, I am pissed af about the fact that this true story of WWII is not known. In fact, very often the Russian version of "pravda" is what has been spread. Why tf is there no Oscar winning movie about this story? Poland is invaded from both sides, saves the most lives of our fellow Jewish brothers and sisters: the most heroic story, and the movie count is zero. | | |
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| ▲ | varispeed 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Russians started the war together with Germans. The idea that they could "help" is Western propaganda that tries to whitewash helping Soviet Union. |
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| ▲ | spwa4 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It was an attempt of the Polish resistance to avoid being "liberated" by the Soviets to just immediately become occupied by the communist red army. The idea being to liberate Warsaw and get US/UK assistance through the Polish government-in-exile in London to establish Polish military control before the Soviet army arrived. Getting US/UK support could have meant that Poland remained an independent state. Instead, Stalin not only betrayed them, but later actually convicted the surviving leaders of the uprising. "Crimes against communism". This is now politely referred to as a Soviet betrayal in service of "Stalin's post-war political goals for Poland". |
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| ▲ | expedition32 an hour ago | parent [-] | | The West aren't entirely the good guys here. My own city was liberated by Polish troops. After WW2 they obviously couldn't go back to Poland. A lot of them ended up in relative poverty after the war. At least Canadians and Australians went back home and got a parade. |
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| ▲ | pstuart 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Did Russia back out to intentionally let it happen or did they chicken out to avoid fighting the nazis? |
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| ▲ | Robotbeat 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | Intentionally. Allowed the Soviets to administer the place when the Nazis finally left, as the Polish resistance had been crushed. Unforgiveable. |
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