Remix.run Logo
slibhb 3 hours ago

I agree with your analysis but I just want to point out that, as a general rule, cyclists do not follow traffic laws. They don't stop at stop signs/red lights. They weave in and out of traffic. They often bike the wrong way down one-way bike paths.

II2II 29 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

I regularly see more motorists run red lights in a given day than I have seen cyclists run red lights in a decade. Cycling is sufficiently common in my area to state outright that, proportionally speaking, more motorists run red lights than cyclists.

The same thing can be said for cyclists weaving in and out of traffic, and for good reason: if traffic is moving, it's a good way to kill yourself; if traffic is not moving, there is no need for it. (There is usually enough space on the right to pass. If there isn't enough space on the right to pass, it is unsafe.)

I have seen more motorists barrel the wrong way down a one way street, in reverse, than I have seen cyclists riding down one way streets the wrong way. Proportionally speaking, more cyclists may be breaking the law. In terms of safety, what motorists are doing is far more dangerous.

As for stop signs: other cyclists tend to get the hint when I stop at them on my bike. :) The ones who don't stop tend to do the same as motorists, by doing a "rolling stop". Doing anything less would be a good way to get killed.

So no, I don't agree that cyclists do not follow traffic laws as a general rule. In many cases, motorists are worse. I am not going to pretend that cyclists are better for altruistic reasons. The reality is that cyclists are much more vulnerable than motorists. Cars are made to handle collisions, bikes are not. Motorists pay more attention to cars than bikes, in the most part because other cars are more dangerous to them.

TulliusCicero 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Drivers generally don't follow traffic laws. They text on their phone while they drive. They routinely go over the speed limit. They go through red lights. They go into or park in bike lanes. They tailgate other drivers. They don't signal before turning or changing lanes.

slibhb an hour ago | parent [-]

Drivers generally follow the rules. It's considered bad form when they don't, and they're occasionally ticketed. This doesn't apply to bikers. No one even expects them to follow the rules.

I'm not anti-bike. I bike a bit and I got hit by a car last year. Some crackhead turned left across the opposite lane right into me.

I'm just reporting what I see -- bikers do not generally follow the rules, and I find this interesting. Maybe they're being rational. Or maybe they're not. Either way it's interesting.

ianburrell 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Cars don't follow traffic laws. Cars roll through stop signs and run red lights. Cars speed and weave through traffic. They go the wrong way down one-way streets. Since cars are much bigger, this is much more dangerous.

jona-f 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yet cyclists rarely kill others. Car drivers on the other hand are one of the most prolific unnatural causes of death.

danny_codes 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That seems irrelevant, we’re talking about cars.

Also, of course bikers don’t follow car rules. Those rules are nonsensical for cyclists.

doug_durham 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

In the US, bikes == cars. They are required to follow the same rules. I don’t find them nonsensical.

kelnos 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I used to agree with that (as a pedestrian and driver only), but as I've started cycling, I've begun to realize that many rules of the road, intended for cars, just don't make much sense for bicycles.

coryrc 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

In Washington State, they're required to follow most car rules when in a lane, but not all (i.e. all stop signs are yield for cyclists). They also have a set of rules allowing for sidewalk usage when mounted; when dismounted, they follow pedestrian rules (obviously).

mrgoldenbrown 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It's weird to have the same rules when there are several orders of magnitude difference in manueverability, maximum damage possible, and visibility between the two modes. Imagine if pedestrians had to follow all the same rules as cars. Or everyone in an electric wheelchair. It wouldn't make sense.

dublinstats an hour ago | parent [-]

I think the point is they have to follow the rules of the road because they are allowed in the road. Pedestrians, wheelchairs, etc can go on the sidewalk and be safe from traffic (one hopes).

Though it depends on the state and in my experience there are typically some differences, such as bikes are required to share the lane.

zeeZ an hour ago | parent [-]

Everyone using the road following the same set of rules makes their actions more predictable and thus safer (in theory)

saagarjha 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Bikes are largely supposed to follow the same rules, with a handful of exceptions.

joenot443 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

We’re talking about bike lanes, it seemed completely relevant to me?

throw_a_grenade 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

How is that when car drivers decide the rules are nonsensical it's bad, but when bicycle drivers decide the rules (that, please note, apply to everyone on the street, car or not), it's somehow A-ok?

rafabulsing an hour ago | parent [-]

How come that when people handling uranium decide the rules are nonsensical it's bad, but when people handling bananas decide the rules (that, please note, apply to everyone with radioactive materials), it's somehow A-ok?

tmtvl 26 minutes ago | parent [-]

When I go to buy banana I always bring my Geiger counter. I also aways get kicked out of the supermarket, I wonder what they're trying to cover up...

saagarjha 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Seems like something else worth working on.