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mayama 9 hours ago

With the way elections changed after social media became big. Govts want to have control back, like they did before. And are increasingly curbing open internet with boogeyman CP or terrorists, new fear of mass AI CP. Ultimately we'll get 2nd hand version of great firewall and social credit system. Some "liberal democracies" already have root of such systems implemented.

kivle 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I think it has more to do with digital verification for social media in a hope of killing bot accounts that are interfering in the public debate. Some of the biggest social media influencer accounts turns out to be Chinese/Russian bots trying to fuel hate/division our democracies, and with LLMs it is only getting worse. Some form of digital ID to verify social media account identities is probably the only hope left of having a real public debate.

js8 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The bot problem is solvable by using a web of trust system. You don't need a digital ID for that (i.e. you don't need to tie your digital world identity to a real world identity, nor you need a central agency to manage these).

In web of trust, anyone could publicly certify who they know is a real person (i.e. validate a link from their id to another id). Then, if you received a message from someone, the system would find the path in the graph of real people you trust, to determine the trustworthiness of the source. So if the account is a bot, there would be no path from it to you in the trust graph.

The advantage is that everyone could supply their own subjective trustworthiness score, altering the graph. They could even publish it, so that other people could use trustworthiness assesment of accounts they personally trust.

The big issue with a system of web of trust is that it is too efficient, and just kills commercial advertising (and also propaganda). Because that is all about overcoming the natural web of trust that humans have.

vaylian 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Then the politicians should be honest about this goal. The best way to solve a problem requires understanding what the problem is. If we pretend to solve another problem, the solution for the actual will be less than ideal.

petre an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That's actually great for social media companies to create a profile on you and feed you ads. They don't care about the bots or denocracy. The only hope for a real public debate is to show up in person at the debate.

sunaookami 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

>Some of the biggest social media influencer accounts turns out to be Chinese/Russian bots trying to fuel hate/division our democracies

This is propaganda, none of those supposed networks exists or were successful in anything and when the media do show some supposed accounts they don't have a lot of views. Please stop falling for this, your democracy sucks because the politicians suck and the people want change so they turn to extremist parties.

bootsmann 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Yes, obviously, the Romanian supreme court having to overturn and annul a presidential election due to Russian social media inference is entirely made up propaganda.

sunaookami 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Romania's courts are corrupt and not independent.

Pooge 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Govts want to have control back

By forcing us to go through devices completely controlled by US companies?

graemep 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Yes. Control of information and citizen's behaviour is a higher priority for them than sovereignty.

esperent 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

What are you referencing here?

green7ea 7 hours ago | parent [-]

Many of the proposed EU digital solutions require a Google or Apple verified phone. This makes escaping American companies difficult.

esperent 3 hours ago | parent [-]

I don't think that's true, it seems to be just this specific German one:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47644406

subscribed 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I'm afraid you're wrong.

Whitelabel/demo implementation specifically pushes FOR Google Play Integrity after being explained why that's a bad idea: https://github.com/eu-digital-identity-wallet/av-doc-technic...

Via: https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/24452-eu-might-enforce-goog... which specifically quotes the law that should forbid such approach (Article 6(4) DMA) - so EU initiative and engineers consciously and intentionality breaking EU law in the prototype that is supposed to be replicated later.

an hour ago | parent [-]
[deleted]
Pooge 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Switzerland's rely completely on an (Android/iOS) application. No desktop version. If you change your phone you must ask for a new ID.

subscribed 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The governments don't mind AI CP even made with real children as long as you're a billionaire openly selling access to the generator.

That kind of serves as a proof to your opinion it's a boogeyman.

petre an hour ago | parent [-]

They possibly do, which is why France invited Musk to attend a hearing.

https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/musk-summoned-by-fr...

But they would gladly use that for more control.

delusional 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I don't know if it has anything to do with changes in elections directly. My government has been talking for a while making the case that social media use makes us dumber, sadder, and more scared. I believe it's true that they also see that playing out in elections, but that's not where they want to solve a problem.

Wouldn't it be strange if solving a problem didn't affect elections?

pjc50 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This has been noticeable since Tahrir square; I used to say that Twitter gives you a revolution whether you need it or not.

But it's becoming increasingly clear how badly compromised the whole thing is with fake opinions and enemy propaganda.

I don't like either of the options. I don't like control by the state, and I don't like control by mad billionaires. I don't like the far right cesspool of 4chan, but can't disagree with their position that they shouldn't have to care about OFCOM.

coldtea 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

>My government has been talking for a while making the case that social media use makes us dumber, sadder, and more scared. I believe it's true that they also see that playing out in elections, but that's not where they want to solve a problem.

The governments themselves are "dumber, sadder, and more scared". They are worried because social media puts regular people talking on equal footing to official propagandas (being able to reach everybody else). That's what they fear, because they have the lowest approval ratings and legitimization in over half a century, and they're also making everything shittier and shittier to the benefit of their corporate overlords.

schubidubiduba 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

You couldn't be more wrong. There's no equal footing when propaganda buys you thousands of bots to parrot what you want on every related post. And there is no ability to "reach everyone" when intransparent algorithms decide what reaches who. Moreover, some kind of content is explicitly suppressed and censored.

phatfish 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I will agree that governments are happy to bend the knee to corporations. But corporations control social media, so why would the corporations themselves not further their agenda using the platforms they control? Be that simply letting chaos ensue (see the UK Southport riots that were sparked by a "news story" from Pakistan) or from tuning the algorithms directly.

People have control over their government, at least in democracies that are functioning to a basic level (see Hungary recently). But they have zero control over social media, in fact the only organisations that can control global billion dollar tech companies are nation state governments...

CalRobert 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It could be both