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an0malous 8 hours ago

What is all this AI doing? People are spending 10’s to 100’s of billions and no service or technology seems better or cheaper. Everything is more expensive and worse.

barnabee 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Where I work:

- Development velocity is very noticeably much higher across the board. Quality is not obviously worse, but it's LLM assisted, not vibe coding (except for experiments and internal tools).

- Things that would have been tactically built with TypeScript are now Rust apps.

- Things that would have been small Python scripts are full web apps and dashboards.

- Vibe coding (with Claude Desktop, nobody is using Replit or any of the others) is the new Excel for non tech people.

- Every time someone has any idea it's accompanied by a multi page "Clauded" memo explaining why it's a great idea and what exactly should be done (about 20% of which is useful).

- 80% of what were web searches now go to Claude instead (for at least a significant minority of people, could easily be over 50%).

- Nobody talks about ChatGPT any more. It's Claude or (sometimes) Gemini.

- My main job isn't writing code but I try to keep Claude Code (both my personal and corpo accounts) and OpenCode (also almost always Claude, via Copilot) busy and churning away on something as close to 100% of the time as I can without getting in the way of my other priorities.

We (~20 people) are probably using 2 orders of magnitude more inference than we were at the start of the year and it's consolidated away from cursor, ChatGPT and Claude to just be almost all Claude (plus a little Gemini as that's part of our Google Whateverspace plan and some people like it, mostly for non-engineering tasks).

No idea if any of this will make things better, exactly, but I think we'd be at a severe competitive disadvantage if we dropped it all and went back how things were.

stasomatic 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I am hobbyist playing around. Recently dropped CC (which gave me a sense of awe 2 months ago), but they realized GPUs need CapEx and I want to screw around with pi.dev on a budget. Then on to GH Copilot but couldn't understand their cost structure, ran out of quota half month in, now on Codex. I don't really see any difference for little stuff. I also have Antigravity through a personal Gmail account with access to Opus et al and I don't understand if I am paying for it or not. They don't have my CC so that's a breather.

It's all romantic, but a bunch of devs are getting canned left and right, a slice of the population whose disposable income the economy depends on.

It's too late to be a contrarian pundit, but what's been done besides uncovering some 0-days? The correction will be brutal, worse than the Industrial Revolution. Just the recent news about Meta cuts, SalesForce, Snap, Block, the list is long.

Have you shipped anything commercially viable because of AI or are you/we just keeping up?

jameshart 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

There has always been a gap between the experience of solo/small shop developers, vs. developers who work in teams in a large corporate environment. But thanks to open source, we have for the past twenty years at least mostly all been using the same tools.

But right now, the difference in developer experience between a dev on a team at a business which has corporate copilot or Claude licenses and bosses encouraging them to maximize token usage, vs a solo dev experimenting once every few months with a consumer grade chat model is vast.

elliotec 42 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly is the vast difference? Who's doing more of what, or whatever you're implying? And how do you quantify this?

eieie 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Let’s take an extreme example.

Meta seemingly has a constant stream of product managers. If llm’s really augment the productivity of engineers, why isn’t meta launching lots more stuff? I mean there’s no harm in at least launching one new thing.

What are all those people doing with the so called productivity enhancements?

What I’m calling into question is how much does generating more code matter if the bottle neck is creativity/imagination for projects?

The only thing I’ve seen is a really crummy meta AI thing implemented within WhatsApp.

bushbaba 4 minutes ago | parent [-]

It’s allowed a sludge of internal tools to spin up, and more bloat. The ability to sand bag and over build these tools has gotten 2-10x worse.

Only solution I can think of is to drastically cut headcount so productivity is back to prior levels, and profitability is raised. Big Tech is mostly market constrained with not much room to grow beyond the market itself growing.

As for startups, seems like AI tools have drastically reduced their time to market and accelerated their growth curves.

fc417fc802 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> The correction will be brutal, worse than the Industrial Revolution.

Has it occurred to you that there might not be a correction, and that the outcome would still be brutal, at least on par with the industrial revolution.

stasomatic 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Do you mean as in there will be no happy ending / reset and no another century of prosperity?

fc417fc802 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I mean as in living through the industrial revolution would have been wild. So whether we have an AI revolution or an AI bubble it's bound to be a roller coaster.

And that's without accounting for the various wars (and resultant economic impacts) that are already in progress. A large part of what drove the meat grinder of WWI was (very approximately) the various actors repeatedly misjudging the overall situation and being overly enthusiastic to try out their shiny new weapons systems. If one or more superpowers decide to have a showdown the only thing that might minimize loss of life this time around is (ironically enough) the rise of autonomous weapons systems. Even in that case as we know from WWII the logical outcome is a decimated economy and manufacturing sector regardless of anything else that might happen.

rhubarbtree 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Bubble or revolution - not a dichotomy.

Bubbles like the AI bubble are a game theoretic outcome of a revolution. Many players invest heavily to avoid losing, but as a whole the market over invests. This leads to a bubble.

chpatrick 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Imagine you're a typesetter and they just invented computerized printing.

mullingitover 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> - Development velocity is very noticeably much higher across the board

It's an absolute tornado of PRs these days. Everyone making the most of these tools is effectively an engineering team lead.

MrDarcy 5 hours ago | parent [-]

The CTO/VP of engineering role down is now singularly focused on keeping agents fed with a backlog of Linear issues. This is the new normal.

am17an 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Sounds exhausting. Are your revenue numbers up?

camdenreslink an hour ago | parent | next [-]

I am also curious about the correlation between more PRs getting merged faster and actual business outcomes.

My impression has always been it's more important the build the correct thing (what the customer needs/wants) rather than more stuff faster.

eieie 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Incremental cash flows is what we should be observing - have to net out the costs of llm associated with the activity.

Thats just one set of costs but a good starting point.

davidcann 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Is your team measuring how much of your code is being written with claude and comparing amongst the team, like what works best in your codebase? How are you learning from each other?

I’m making a team version of my buildermark.dev open source project and trying to learn about how teams would like to use it.

barnabee 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Different teams are using it in very different ways so it can be tough to compare meaningfully.

Backends handling tens to hundreds of thousands of messages per second with extremely high correctness and resilience requirements are necessarily taking a different approach to less critical services that power various ancillary sites/pages or to front end web apps.

That said there's a lot of very open discussion around tooling, "skills", MCP, etc., harnesses, and approaches and plenty of sharing and cross-pollination of techniques.

It would be great to find ways to better quantify the actual value add from LLMs and from the various ways of using them, but our experience so far is that the landscape in terms of both model capability and tooling is shifting so fast that that's quite hard to do.

davidcann 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Thanks for the feedback. I agree that it’s changing very fast, which is why my thesis is that this tooling will be needed to help everyone on the team keep up.

jeremyjh 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It sounds very similar to my shop. I have QA people and Product Managers using Claude to develop better integration and reporting tools in Python. Business users are vibe coding all kinds of tools shared as Claude Artifacts, the more ambitious ones are building single page app prototypes. We ported one prototype to Next.js and hosted on Vercel in a couple of days and then handed it back to them with a Devcontainer and Claude Code so they can iterate on it themselves; and we also developed all the security infrastructure, scaffolding, agent instructions & policy required to do this for low stakes apps in a responsible way.

It hardly seems worth it to try to iterate on design when they can just build a completely functional prototype themselves in a few hours. We're building APIs for internal users in preference to UIs, because they can build the UIs themselves and get exactly what they need for their specific use cases and then share it with whoever wants it.

We replaced an expensive, proprietary vendor product in a couple of weeks.

I have no delusions about the scale or complexity limits of these projects. They can help with large, complex systems but mostly at the margins: help with impact analysis, production support, test cases, code review. We generate a lot of code too but we're not vibe coding a new system of record and review standards have actually increased because refactoring is so much cheaper.

The fact is that ordinary businesses have a LOT of unmet demand for low stakes custom software. The ones that lean into this will not develop superpowers but I do think they will out-compete slow adopters and those companies will be forced to catch up in the next few years.

I develop presentations now by dumping a bunch of context in a folder with a template and telling Claude Cowork what I want (it does much better than web version because of its python and shell tools and it can iterate, render, review, repeat until its excellent). The copy is quite good, I rewrite less than a third of it and the style and graphics are so much better than I could do myself in many hours.

No one likes reading a bunch of vibe coded slop and cultural norms about this are still evolving; but on balance its worth it by far.

ojr 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I am an early Gemini daily driver type engineer, feels like Node, Firefox, React and Tailwind all over again, Claude Sonnet is 10x more expensive, quick thought experiment do you think 10 Gemini prompts is needed to match the quality of one Claude Code prompt? The harness around Gemini is an issue but I built my own (in Rust)

jwpapi 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think if you drop this all you will absolutely kill it.

komali2 4 hours ago | parent [-]

I'm not sure. I have a buddy that's one of the better engineers I know personally, and he struggled to maintain an "AI Lent" for even a month. He found he just wasn't productive enough without it.

He did a writeup: https://buduroiu.com/blog/ai-lent-end/

ttul 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

This sounds like my office, but we're a bit more tilted toward Codex. I personally use Claude Cowork for drudge-admin work, GPT 5.5-Pro for several big research tasks daily, and the LLMs munge on each other's slop all day as I try my best to wrap my head around what has been produced and get it into our document repository -- all the while being conscious that the enormous volume of stuff I'm producing is a bit overwhelming for everyone.

We are definitely reaching the point where you need an LLM to deal with the onslaught of LLM-generated content, even if the humans are being judicious about editing everything. We're all just cranking on an inhumanly massive amount of output and it's frankly scary.

JambalayaJimbo an hour ago | parent [-]

Didn’t got 5.5 just come out lol. Am I just reading slop on this website?

Jagerbizzle 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'm burning an insane number of tokens 8-12 hours a day for the dramatic improvement of some internal tooling at a big tech company. Using it heavily for an unannounced future project as well.

I presume I'm not the only one.

msy 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

We suddenly have a proliferation of new internal tools and resources, nearly all of which are barely functional and largely useless with no discernible impact on the overall business trajectory but sure do seem to help come promo time.

Barely an hour goes by without a new 4-page document about something that that everyone is apparently ment to read, digest and respond to, despite its 'author' having done none of those steps, it's starting to feel actively adversarial.

kranke155 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Without good management AI is just a new way to make terrible work in unprecedented quantities.

With good management you will get great work faster.

The distinguishing feature between organisations competing in the AI era is process. AI can automate a lot of the work but the human side owns process. If it’s no good everything collapses. Functional companies become hyper functional while dysfunctional companies will collapse.

Bad ideas used to be warded off by workers who in some shape or form of malicious compliance just would slow down and redirect the work while advocating for better solutions.

That can’t happen as much anymore as your manager or CEO can vibe code stuff and throw it down the pipeline for the workers to fix.

If you have bad processes your company will die, or shrivel or stagnate at best. Companies with good process will beat you.

briansm 3 hours ago | parent [-]

[flagged]

qingcharles 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

My main use of vibecoding is creating dozens of internal tools that have sped up tasks, or made tasks possible that were previously not. These tools would have taken weeks of time to build manually and would have been hard to justify, rather than just struggling with manual processes every now and again. AI has been life-changing in creating these kinda janky tools with janky UI that do everything they're supposed to perfectly, but are ugly as hell.

Jach 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Are you able to describe any of those internal tools in more detail? How important are they on average? (For example, at a prior job I spent a bit of time creating a slackbot command "/wtf acronym" which would query our company's giant glossary of acronyms and return the definition. It wasn't very popular (read: not very useful/important) but it saved myself some time at least looking things up (saving more time than it took to create I'm sure). I'd expect modern LLMs to be able to recreate it within a few minutes as a one-shot task.)

scottyah 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I have one that serves a few functions- Tracks certificates and licenses (you can export certs in any of the majorly requested formats), a dashboard that tells you when licenses and certs are close to expiring, a user count, a notification system for alerts (otherwise it's a mostly buried Teams channel most people miss), a Downtime Tracker that doesn't require people to input easily calculatable fields, a way for teams to reset their service account password and manage permissions, as well as add, remove, switch which project is sponsoring which person, edit points of contact, verify project statuses, and a lot more. It even has some quick charts that pull from our Jira helpdesk queue- charts that people used to run once a week for a meeting are just live now in one place. It also has application statuses and links, and a lot more.

I'd been fighting to make this for two years and kept getting told no. I got claude to make a PoC in a day, then got management support to continue for a couple weeks. It's super beneficial, and targets so many of our pain points that really bog us down.

CoolThings 4 hours ago | parent [-]

>> a dashboard that tells you when licenses and certs are close to expiring

Or, Excel > Data > Sort > by the Date column. No dashboard needed, no app needed.

Daishiman 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Why are you ignoring the fact that grabbing data from heterogeneous sources, combining it and presenting it is generally never a trivial task? This is exactly what LLMs are good for.

camdenreslink an hour ago | parent [-]

If you are using an LLM to actually fetch that data, combine it, and present it to you in an ad hoc way (like you run the same prompt every month or something), I wouldn't trust that at all. It still hallucinates, invents things and takes short cuts too often.

If you are using an LLM to create an application to grab data from heterogeneous sources, combine it and present it, that is much better, but could also basically be the excel spreadsheet they are describing.

qingcharles 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The ones I can mention.. one that watches a specific web site until an offer that is listed expires and then clicks renew (happens about once a day, but there is no automated way in the system to do it and having the app do it saves it being unlisted for hours and saves someone logging in to do it). Several that download specific combinations of documents from several different portals, where the user would just suck it up previously and right-click on each one to save it (this has a bunch of heuristics because it really required a human before to determine which links to click and in what order, but Claude was able to determine a solid algo for it). Another one that opens PDFs and pulls the titles and dates from the first page of the documents, which again was just done manually before, but now sends the docs via Gemma4 free API on Google to extract the data (the docs are a mess of thousands of different layouts).

Denzel 3 hours ago | parent [-]

None of these projects sound like weeks worth of scope w/o AI.

shimman 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It's almost always a CRUD app or dashboard that no one uses while being extremely overkill for their use case.

edit: LOL called it, a bunch of useless garbage that no one really cares about but used to justify corporate jobs programs.

girvo 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Ah but it looks cool and I can put it on my stack ranking perf eval

Daishiman 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

If it's useless that's a you problem. I've been building CRUDs that would have taken me a month to get perfectly right in the span of 4-5 days which save an enormous number of human tech support hours.

shimman 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Sorry man but the software world is littered with CRUD apps, they are called CRUD apps for a reason. They're basically the mass assembled stamped L-bracket of the software world. CRUD apps have also had template generators for like 30 years now too.

Still useless in the sense that if you died tomorrow and your app was forgotten in a week the world will still carry on. As it should. Utterly useless in pushing humanity forward but completely competent at creating busy work that does not matter (much like 99% of CRUD apps and dashboards).

But sure yeah, the dashboard for your SMB is amazing.

Daishiman an hour ago | parent [-]

The software industry's value proposition for the vast majority of businesses running the world lies in CRUD apps that properly capture business requirements. That's infinitely more relevant in insurance, pharma, banking and logistics than any technological breakthrough of the past 25 years.

Your rant just shows you don't understand why people pay for software.

hdndjsbbs 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

My team has also adopted this - it's much easier to add another layer than to refine or simplify what exists. We have AI skills to help us debug microservices that call microservices that have circular dependencies.

This was possible before but someone would maybe notice the insane spaghetti. Now it's just "we'll fix it with another layer of noodles".

vineyardmike 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

That's so interesting because where I work, the push was to "add one more API" to existing services, turning them into near monoliths for the sake of deployment and access. Still a mess of util and helper functions recursively calling each other, but at least it's one binary in one container.

mancerayder 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Unfortunately I saw this pre-AI with microservices, where while empowering developers with their beloved microservices, we create intense complexity and deployment headaches. AI will fix the slop with an obscuring layer of complexity on top.

layoric 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Are you concerned this will just lead to coupling everywhere like microservices tend to do?

cobolcomesback 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

We’re seeing the exact same where I work. Our main Slack channels have become inundated with “new tool announcements!”, multiple per day, often solving duplicate problems or problems that don’t exist. We’ve had to stop using those channels for any real conversation because most people are muting them due to the slop noise.

And what’s worse is that when someone does build a decent tool, you can’t help but be skeptical because of all the absolute slop that has come out. And everyone thinks their slop doesn’t stink, so you can’t take them at their word when they say it doesn’t. Even in this thread, how are you to know who is talking about building something useful vs something they think is useful?

A lot of people that have always wanted to be developers but didn’t have the skills are now empowered to go and build… things. But AI hasn’t equipped them with the skill of understanding if it actually makes sense to build a thing, or how to maintain it, or how to evolve it, or how to integrate it with other tools. And then they get upset when you tell them their tool isn’t the best thing since sliced bread. It’s exhausting, and I think we’ve yet to see the true consequences of the slop firehose.

Gigachad 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

We had a coworker vibecode an internal tool, do a bunch of marketing to the company at how incredible it is. Then got hired somewhere else.

I just went and deleted it because it's completely broken at every edge case and half of the happy paths too.

Jagerbizzle 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'm sorry to hear that you have people abusing their new superpowers.

I run a team and am spending my time/tokens on serious pain points.

casey2 7 hours ago | parent [-]

Such as?

tonyarkles 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I'll throw this out as something where it has saved literally weeks of work: debugging pathological behaviour in third-party code. Prompt example: "Today, when I did U, V, and W. I ended up with X happening. I fixed it by doing Y. The second time I tried, Z happened instead (which was the expected behaviour). Can you work out a plausible explanation for why X happened the first time and why Y fixed it? Please keep track of the specific lines of code where the behaviour difference shows up."

This is in a real-time stateful system, not a system where I'd necessarily expect the exact same thing to happen every time. I just wanted to understand why it behaved differently because there wasn't any obvious reason, to me, why it would.

The explanation it came back with was pretty wild. It essentially boiled down to a module not being adequately initialized before it was used the first time and then it maintained its state from then on out. The narrative touched a lot of code, and the source references it provided did an excellent job of walking me through the narrative. I independently validated the explanation using some telemetry data that the LLM didn't have access to. It was correct. This would have taken me a very long time to work out by hand.

Edit: I have done this multiple times and have been blown away each time.

Jagerbizzle 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I answered this in a different comment below, but a lot of the friction is around the amount of time it takes to test/review/submit etc, and a lot of this is centered around tooling that no one has had the time to improve, perf problems in clunky processes that have been around longer than anyone individual, and other things of this nature. Addressing these issues is now approachable and doable in one's "spare time".

casey2 7 hours ago | parent [-]

The point of that friction is to keep the human in the loop wrt code quality, it's not meant to be meaningless busywork. It's difficult to believe that you sustain the benefit of those systems. Anthropic and Microsoft publicly failed to keep up code quality. They would probably be in a better spot currently if they used neither, no friction, no AI. But that friction exists for a reason and AI doesn't have the "context length" to benefit from it.

This the the difference between intentional and incidental friction, if your CI/CD pipeline is bad it should be improved not sidestepped. The first step in large projects is paving over the lower layer so that all that incidental friction, the kind AI can help with, is removed. If you are constantly going outside that paved area, sure AI will help, but not with the success of the project which is more contingent on the fact that you've failed to lay the groundwork correctly.

nathancahill 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Creating stakeholder value

natpalmer1776 7 hours ago | parent [-]

Promoting synergy

DANmode 12 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Eating a bagel

paradoxyl 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Creating productivity gain narrtives

scottyah 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Aligning stakeholders

girvo 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

For me/my team, I use it to fix DevProd pain points that I would otherwise never get the investment to go solve. Just removed Webpack for Rspack, for example. Could easily do it myself, which is why I can prompt it correctly and review the output properly, but I can let it run while I’m in meetings over more important product or architectural decisions

serf 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

>Such as?

it's crazy that the experiences are still so wildly varying that we get people that use this strategy as a 'valid' gotcha.

AI works for the vast majority of nowhere-near-the-edge CS work -- you know, all the stuff the majority of people have to do every day.

I don't touch any kind of SQL manually anymore. I don't touch iptables or UFW. I don't touch polkit, dbus, or any other human-hostile IPC anymore. I don't write cron jobs, or system unit files. I query for documentation rather than slogging through a stupid web wiki or equivalent. a decent LLM model does it all with fairly easy 5-10 word prompts.

ever do real work with a mic and speech-to-text? It's 50x'd by LLM support. Gone are the days of saying "H T T P COLON FORWARD SLASH FORWARD SLASH W W W".

this isn't some untested frontier land anymore. People that embrace it find it really empowering except on the edges, and even those state-of-the-art edge people are using it to do the crap work.

This whole "Yeah, well let me see the proof!" ostrich-head-in-the-sand thing works about as long as it takes for everyone to make you eat their dust.

hattmall 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

People ask for examples because they want to know what other people are doing. Everything you mention here is VERY reasonable. It's exactly the kind of stuff no one is going to be surprised that you are getting good results with the current AI. But none of that is particularly groundbreaking.

I'm not trying to marginalize your or anyone else's usage of AI. The reason people are saying "such as" is to gauge where the value lies. The US GDP is around 30T. Right now there's is something like ~12T reasonably involved in the current AI economy. That's massive company valuations, data center and infrastructure build out a lot of it is underpinning and heavily influencing traditional sectors of the economy that have a real risk of being going down the wrong path.

So the question isn't what can AI do, it can do a lot, even very cheap models can handle most of what you have listed. The real question is what can the cutting edge state of the art models do so much better that is productively value added to justify such a massive economic presence.

leptons 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That's all well and good, but what happens when the price to run these AIs goes up 10x or even 100x.

It's the same model as Uber, and I can't afford Uber most of the time anymore. It's become cost prohibitive just to take a short ride, but it used to cost like $7.

It's all fun and games until someone has to pay the bill, and these companies are losing many billions of dollars with no end in sight for the losses.

I doubt the tech and costs for the tech will improve fast enough to stop the flood of money going out, and I doubt people are going to want to pay what it really costs. That $200/month plan might not look so good when it's $2000/month, or more.

nvader 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Why not try it yourself? Inference providers like BaseTen and AWS Bedrock have perfectly capable open source models as well as some licensed closed source models they host.

You can use "API-style" pricing on these providers which is more transparent to costs. It's very likely to end up more than 200 a month, but the question is, are you going to see more than that in value?

For me, the answer is yes.

leptons 3 hours ago | parent [-]

What makes you think I haven't tried it myself?

The "costs" are subsidized, it's a loss-leader.

Jach 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It's an important concern for those footing the bill, but I expect companies really in the face of being impacted by it to be able to do a cost-benefit calculation and use a mix of models. For the sorts of things GP described (iptables whatever, recalling how to scan open ports on the network, the sorts of things you usually could answer for yourself with 10-600 seconds in a manpage / help text / google search / stack overflow thread), local/open-weight models are already good enough and fast enough on a lot of commodity hardware to suffice. Whereas now companies might say just offload such queries to the frontier $200/mo plan because why not, tokens are plentiful and it's already being paid for, if in the future it goes to $2000/mo with more limited tokens, you might save them for the actual important or latency-sensitive work and use lower-cost local models for simpler stuff. That lower-cost might involve a $2000 GPU to be really usable, but it pays for itself shortly by comparison. To use your Uber analogy, people might have used it to get to downtown and the airport, but now it's way more expensive, so they'll take a bus or walk or drive downtown instead -- but the airport trip, even though it's more expensive than it used to be, is still attractive in the face of competing alternatives like taxis/long term parking.

Peritract 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

None of that is concrete though; it's all alleged speed-ups with no discernable (though a lot of claimed) impact.

> This whole "Yeah, well let me see the proof!" ostrich-head-in-the-sand thing works about as long as it takes for everyone to make you eat their dust.

People will stop asking for the proof when the dust-eating commences.

fc417fc802 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Sounds like a workplace wide DDoS.

trhway 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>Barely an hour goes by without a new 4-page document about something that that everyone is apparently ment to read, digest and respond to, despite its 'author' having done none of those steps, it's starting to feel actively adversarial.

well, isn't that what AI can be used effectively for - to generate [auto]response to the AI generated content.

komali2 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> but sure do seem to help come promo time.

I personally noticed this. The speed at which development was happening at one gig I had was impossible to keep up with without agentic development, and serious review wasn't really possibile because there wasn't really even time to learn the codebase. Had a huge stack of rules and MCPs to leverage that kinda kept things on the rails and apps were coming out but like, for why? It was like we were all just abandoning the idea of good code and caring about the user and just trying to close tickets and keep management/the client happy, I'm not sure if anyone anywhere on the line was measuring real world outcomes. Apparently the client was thrilled.

It felt like... You know that story where two economists pass each other fifty bucks back and forth and in doing so skyrocket the local GDP? Felt like that.

jeremyjh 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'm sorry to hear you have such poor leadership.

er2d 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Im convinced none of these people have any training in corporate finance. For if they did they'd realise they were wasting money.

I guess you gotta look busy. But the stick will come when the shareholders look at the income statement and ask... So I see an increase in operating expenses. Let me go calculate the ROIC. Hm its lower, what to do? Oh I know, lets fire the people who caused this (it wont be the C-Suite or management who takes the fall) lmao.

dpark 7 hours ago | parent [-]

Do you really think companies have started spending millions on tokens and no one from finance has been involved?

You could argue that all the spending is wasted (doubtless some is), but insisting that the decision is being made in complete ignorance of financial concerns reeks of that “everyone’s dumb but me” energy.

hattmall an hour ago | parent | next [-]

There is a difference to just noticing and attributing it to and recognizing negative financial outcomes. Right now for most companies they are still adjusting to declining inflation. Their bottom lines are doing quite well because consumer price inflation is much stickier than supply inflation. We are coming off of one of the quickest and largest supply lead inflationary cycles. It may not be immediately apparent for many companies that new expenditures are a drag on profitability.

The real thing to look at is whether or not the future outlook for company AI spend is heading up or down?

wjeje 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What a finance team allocates on spend has nothing to do with what the tokens actually get used for.

Are they peeking over the shoulder of each team and individual? Of course not.

It can be the case that the spend is absolutely wasteful. Numbers don’t lie.

temp8830 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Do you really think companies have started spending millions on tokens and no one from finance has been involved?

Oh, they were involved all right. They ran their analyses and realized that the increase in Acme Corp's share price from becoming "AI-enabled" will pay for the tokens several times over. For today. They plan to be retired before tomorrow.

wjeje 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

That magic trick only works for publicly traded stocks.

Most firms are not a google or a Microsoft - a firms cash balance can become a strategic weapon in the right environment. So wasting money is not a great idea. Lest we forget dividends.

Moreover if you have a budget set re. Spend on tokens - you have rationing. Therefore the firm should be trying to get the most out of token spend. If you are wasting tokens on stuff that doesn’t create a benefit financially for the firm then indeed it is not inline with proper corporate financial theory.

strange_quark 3 hours ago | parent [-]

No, it works for any VC-backed companies. Something like 60% of VC funding last year went to AI companies. VCs aren't going to give you a money unless you're building an agentic AI-native agent platform for agents.

wjeje 2 hours ago | parent [-]

No Employees of publicly traded firms benefit from short-term gains in the stock price, assuming the stock price jump holds throughout the period of grant/vesting.

People who work at VC-backed firms do not get to enjoy the same degree of liquidity, not even close. There can be some outliers but that is 0.1% of all.

Can't believe simple stuff like this has to be said.

strange_quark 2 hours ago | parent [-]

CFOs or VPs absolutely benefit by hyping their company up to private investors by allowing tokenmaxxing to go on unchecked. Tender offers, acquisitions, and aquihires all exist. Or just good old fashioned resume padding by saying you "enabled AI transformation" or whatever helps you land a big payday at some other company.

dpark 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Sounds like they did train in corporate finance.

wjeje 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Sounds like you haven’t had training in corporate finance.

casey2 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

More that there is a poor incentive structure. Just like how PE can make money by leveraged buyouts and running businesses into the ground. Many of the financial instruments that make both that and the current AI bubble possible were legal then made illegal within the lifetimes of the last 16 presidents.

Round-tripping used to be regulated. SPVs used to be regulated. If you need a loan you used to have to go to something called a bank, now it comes from ???? who knows drug cartels, child traffickers, blackstone, russians & chinese oligarchs. Even assuming it doesn't collapse tommorow why should they make double digit returns on AI datacenters built on the backs of Americans?

dpark 6 hours ago | parent [-]

My issue was not with criticism of the money being spent or how it’s being obtained. I was specifically commenting on this statement:

> “Im convinced none of these people have any training in corporate finance. For if they did they'd realise they were wasting money.”

This isn’t meaningful criticism. This is a vacuous “those guys are so dumb”.

BloondAndDoom 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

AI is truly perfect for internal tooling. Security is less or no concern, bugs are more acceptable, performance / scalability rarely a concern. Quickest way to get things done, and speed up production development, MVP development etc.

jdub 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Security is less or no concern

[waits for chickens to come home to roost]

connicpu 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Doesn't take long until someone has the bright idea to pipe customer tickets directly into the poorly written internal tool

overfeed 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> [waits for chickens to come home to roost]

"We are writing down X billions over 4 years, and have cancel several ambitious programs related to our AI experiments. We were following standard practice in the industry, so [shareholders] can't blame us for these chickens coming to roost. If everyone is guilty, is anyone really guilty?"

LPisGood 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

When attackers can move laterally through everything because every internal tool leaks credentials and data there will be issues.

therealdrag0 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Internal tool Doesn’t have credential. Checkmate ;)

2ndorderthought 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

No problems at all except, unauthorized access to a model they were claiming was a weapon and couldn't be released to the public and having their cli code leaked in the last two weeks. Everything's just fine

sumedh 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Anthropic seems to be doing fine :)

cobolcomesback 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This comment makes me want to scream.

lioeters 3 hours ago | parent [-]

This is what happens when entire industries go all in on "Move fast and break things." Imagine what they said about software applying to everything else in the world. That's what's coming.

> Security is less or no concern, bugs are more acceptable, performance / scalability rarely a concern. Quickest way to get things done

7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]
amluto 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I am, oddly, able to get really quite a lot of mileage out of $20/mo of OpenAI plan, and I have never encountered a usage limit. I have gotten warnings that I was close a couple times.

I wonder what I’m doing differently.

I did spend quite a bit of time, mostly manually, improving development processes such that the agent could effectively check its work. This made a difference between the agent mostly not working and mostly working. Maybe if I had instead spent gobs of money it would have worked output tooling improvements?

komali2 4 hours ago | parent [-]

I wonder if you're like me? I tried out the MCPs and sub agents and rules and bells and whistles and always just came back to a plain Codex / Claude Code / Cursor Agent terminal window, where I say what I want, @ a few files, let it rip, check the diff, ask for some adjustments, then commit and start the process over after clearing context.

Haven't found a process that beats this yet and I burn very few tokens this way.

devmor 2 hours ago | parent [-]

I don’t really write code with it at all, and that’s why I burn so many tokens.

I like writing code, I’m good at writing code. What I hate doing is dredging through logs, filtering out test scenarios and putting together disparate information from knowledge silos - so I have the AI doing that. It’s my research assistant.

Effectively I’m using it like an automated search engine that indexes anything I want and refines the results by using the statistical near neighbors of how other people explained their searches.

se4u 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'd be interested to learn what kind of internal tooling are you improving ?

appplication 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I’m not them but we have vastly improved our internal pipeline monitoring/triage/root cause/etc by having a new system that basically its whole purpose is to hook into all of our other systems and consolidate it under a single view with an emphasis on shortening the amount of time it takes to triage and refine issues.

This will have previously been too ambitious to ever scope but we’ve been able to build essentially all of it in just two months. Since it sits on top of our other systems and acts as more of a window/pass through control pane, the fact that it’s vibe coded poses little risk since we still have all the existing infrastructure under it if something goes awry.

TimTheTinker 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Personally, a static analysis PR check to catch some types of preventable runtime production errors in application code

Jagerbizzle 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

We've had a lot of complaints about our review processes, time to submit, etc, and a lot of that boils down to tools no one has time to improve.

It's now trivial to fix these problems while still doing our day jobs -- shipping a product.

hellisothers 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Same and it is working really well (I say contra to most individual reporting).

andriy_koval 8 hours ago | parent [-]

I have some coworker who says something similar, he vibe coded tons of cryptic code, which indeed solves some problem though could be way more compact and well structured. Now it is hitting complexity limitation, since llm now cant comprehend it, and human cant comprehend it by large a margin.

Jagerbizzle 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

honest recommendation: nuke and pave after analyzing (w/ AI of course) where it went horribly wrong.

it's trivial to reimplement a better solution.

andriy_koval 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Its a bit of workspace politics, I would need to call that guy out to tell that he is not hyper-performer, but just pushed lots of low quality code which will produce lots of negative impact in a long term.

Also, I am not sure if it is trivial to implement. The code is injected into many scenarios and workflows, so replacement will be painful and risky if new solution break some edge case.

Jagerbizzle 7 hours ago | parent [-]

It sounds like you might have some larger process problems if someone can just inject a bunch of vibe-coded slop into critical workflows while more discerning eyes are dubious of the quality/reliability etc.

SpicyLemonZest 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

In some sense, sure. There’s a lot of processes that weren’t previously needed, because sloppy people who couldn’t or wouldn’t think things through were mostly incapable of producing PRs that passed all the existing tests.

andriy_koval 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

its partially/largely management problem. One of tier1 productivity metric in the group is # of LoC created by engineers, so it creates dynamics of people exchanging favors of pushing AI slop to codebase, or be labeled as low performers.

2ndorderthought 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The problem was definitely because they didn't use enough AI fast enough. They should just try again

vbezhenar 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Just wait a month, Opus 4.8 will comprehend it for sure.

overfeed 7 hours ago | parent [-]

it will comprehend it well enough to complicate it further into a rats-nest that only Opus 4.9 can comprehend, and so on. Good luck if you run into a bug before the N+1 version launches.

bakugo 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I guess that's one way to tout a technology as revolutionary without actually needing to provide any proof of it. Just say you're using it for "internal tooling" and "unannounced projects", that way nobody can look at them and notice they're indistinguishable from the slop that clogs up Show HN nowadays.

It's better than the "here's my code, it a giant pile of spaghetti but only luddites care about code quality and maintainability anyway" method, at least.

Daishiman 2 hours ago | parent [-]

I'm using it to write frontend code literally 5 times faster. What would have been a shell script is now a GUI backed by an API layer that doesn't require looking up internal documentation to know that it exists.

I've been using it to write tools that drastically facilitate spinning up local k8s cluster with an entire suite of development services that used to take two days to set up in Docker.

xtracto 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Haven't you seen all the layoffs? Ive been subscribed to r/layoffs for 5+ years, and since a couple of months ago, it's been crazy noisy.

My hypothesis is that companies dont want to offer cheaper nor better services. Only want to cut costs and keep the revenue for investors.

I other news, TQQQ is pretty high!

adrithmetiqa 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Subscribers will not enable these companies to make their money back. The only way is for them to eat the economy itself

hmaxwell 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I'm wondering whether the layoffs are partly targeting people who haven't adapted to using AI tools, particularly those who are openly dismissive of AI-assisted work.

dieortin 6 hours ago | parent [-]

That’s like firing someone because he uses vim instead of VSCode. Who cares about the tools someone uses if he still does his job well?

morserer 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Because the job itself has now changed, and they haven't. Their output speed might have been eclipsed by that of the engineers who efficiently adopted the new tooling.

Where I work, the power dynamics have shifted wildly. There are a number of senior engineers who refuse to touch the stuff, and as a result, they can barely keep up with their peers. Some of our juniors are now running laps around them.

When a stranger to your craft can now teach themselves what you know, how to do your job, and even how to automate your tasks in the span of the same workday as you, all while reliably being able to gauge the innacuracy of the output they're reading, how much longer do you really hold relevance?

jazzyjackson 34 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

How do you mean "barely keep up" and "running laps around them" ?

Are the juniors increasing economic productivity or just pushing lines of code?

</retired from being measured against a random number generator>

nly 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

They aren't teaching themselves anything though are they, they are basically getting AI to do their work for them.

rnxrx 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's not just code generation, either - more and more people in my own org are using Claude Code for infrastructure automation, devops, etc. Obviously some amount of code in there, but an absolute ton of tokens being consumed just dealing with Kubernetes work at scale.

psadauskas 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'm spending a ton of tokens because it insists on manually correcting code that fails the linter, despite the instructions in the AGENTS.md to run the linter with autocorrect.

And also because the Plan agent generates a huge plan, asks me a couple yes/no questions with an obvious answer, and then regenerates the entire plan again. Then the Build agent gets confused anyway and does something else, and I have to round-trip about 5 times with that full context each time.

johanneskanybal 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's a great tool, and at 1/10 or 1/100th the cost of actual developers. In the context of yc I guess watch out getting re-disrupted by a smaller team faster than before. But that's really the trend the past 40 years so nothing is new. Well maybe the velocity combined with us loosing it's footing at the same time.

But yea it's not gonna make facebook 20% better tomorrow just that you need 5 people instead of 40 to build the next facebook.

jazzyjackson 32 minutes ago | parent [-]

And we all know what a positive impact to quality of life building facebook made.

jonlucc 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I can say in one role in my job, I'm getting a lot of use and I know my colleagues are at least trying a lot of things. One use is a first-pass review of animal care and use protocols. The Claude project was given all of the relevant policies and guidelines as well as a fairly long prompt that explains the things we look for in protocol review. It's checking some things that the software we use makes very tedious to check and raising inconsistencies between sections. Some places have a full time "protocol reader" who does this kind of first check, but we've never had that, so it's helpful.

Another project I'm seeing in the same realm is taking an approved protocol and some study results and checking that the records of what was done match what they said they could do in the approved protocol. It can also make sure that surgical records have all the things they should have. This can help meet one of the requirements from the national accreditation organization to do "post approval monitoring".

Another way I've used it is to have it collate and compare a particular kind of policy across many institutions who transparently put their policies online. Seeing the commonality between the policies and where some excel helped me rewrite our policy.

This is work that just wasn't happening before or, more accurately, it was being spread over lots of people, and any improvement in efficiency or consistency is hard to measure.

pizzly 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

For myself, its a massive boost when solo developing. Perhaps this is a different use case than most. It can work across multiple programming languages and frameworks that I had zero experience in. I use my existing knowledge of programming to ensure the new code written is correct. Also it really excels at translating from one language/framework to another. I can spend time getting it working well in a platform I know then just ask it to convert to another platform. It gets it 90% right in the first prompt, then its just a matter of fine-tuning, reviewing etc. This last 10% is where I supercharge my learning on those languages/framework. To lean all the new languages and frameworks would have taken me months before I would be productive. Now with a single prompt, we get 90% of the way there. That is incredible value for us.

bgun 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You seem to be under the impression that making services better or cheaper _for the consumer_ is the goal of any corporation. The goal is to make their own operations better and cheaper for them. They are laying off employees and adding features of questionable value as a pretext to raise prices. The playbook has not changed, it has only accelerated.

trhway 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>What is all this AI doing? People are spending 10’s to 100’s of billions and no service or technology seems better or cheaper. Everything is more expensive and worse.

That "more expensive" is someone's revenue. May be AI is the kind of technology that allows to make more and more revenue by making things more expensive and worse than by making them better and cheaper.

_puk 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I keep seeing this take.

And yet.. building shit is no longer the sole domain of the software engineer.

That's the sea change.

I've literally had finance and GTM stand things up for themselves in the last few weeks. A few tweaks (obviously around security and access), and they are good to go.

They've gone from wrangling spreadsheets to smooth automated workflows that allow them to work at a higher level in a matter of months.

That's what all this AI is doing. The shit we could never get the time to get around to doing.

er2d 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

So... more 'busy work'.

The only thing that matters is the impact on the financials. The shareholders (the people who employ you) dont care about any of this if it does not enhance value.

uncivilized 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Mind sharing what industry you’re seeing this in? I’ve never talked to finance or GTM as an engineer. I’m not sure GTM exists in my industry.

inquirerGeneral 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

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