| ▲ | zaphar 9 hours ago |
| Google does have a sort of temporary moat. They have a much better hardware supply line story than anyone else and the revenue to maintain that edge indefinitely. |
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| ▲ | htx80nerd 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| This is the thing - Google is a real company with well established business, money of their own, hardware, server farms, etc. ChatGPT and Anthropic have none of that in the same way google does. They have an incentive to lie and 'fake it till you make it' so they can get out of the 'risk zone' of collapsing back in on themselves. Google can throw money at Gemini all day. |
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| ▲ | flockonus 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | That may be true for OpenAI, less so for Antropic - which has much better margins. Both of these companies CEOs have come in public saying the same. No doubt as of currently Google has a better business. But the same argument could have been said about Instagram or Whatsapp before Facebook (now Meta) acquired them. |
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| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| If AI is commoditising, who is Bahrain and who are the Saudis? |
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| ▲ | nostromo 9 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The company with the access to cheap and plentiful energy and the real estate to build data centers will be Saudi Arabia in your analogy. This is why SpaceX could be a dark horse in this race. Putting compute in space is expensive but so is building a data center in the US. | | |
| ▲ | bpye 8 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > Putting compute in space is expensive but so is building a data center in the US. You know what's also really hard in a vacuum? Dissipating heat. | | |
| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | > You know what's also really hard in a vacuum? Dissipating heat Correct. The economics of space-based DCs comes down to permitting delays versus radiator mass. At ISS-weight radiators (12 to 15 W/kg (EDIT: kg/kW)), you need almost decade-long delays on the ground (or 10+ percent interest rates) to make lifting worthwhile. Get down to current state-of-the-art in the 5 to 10 W/kg (EDIT: kg/kW) range, however, and you only need permiting delays of 2 to 3 years. If there is a game-changing start-up waiting to be built, it's in someone commercialising a better vacuum-rated radiator. | | |
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| ▲ | redanddead 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Putting it centrally globally makes a lot of sense, just like connecting airports Saudi will host the biggest data centers in the world |
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| ▲ | mikelitoris 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | What does that mean? | | |
| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 9 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > What does that mean? I really couldn't have been more obscure, could I? :P In 1932, "the first oil field in the Persian Gulf outside of Iran" was discovered in Bahrain [1]. (The same year Saudi Arabia announced unification [2].) In the end, Saudi Arabia had larger reserves and wound up geopolitically dominating its first-moving rival. In commodities, the game tends to be scale in part through land grabbing. Less who got where first. To close the analogy, if AI does wind up commoditised, the layers at which that commodity is held are probably between power and compute [3]. So if AI commoditises (commodifies?), Google selling computer (and indirectly power) to Anthropic and OpenAI is the smarter play than trying to advantage Gemini. (If AI doesn't commoditise, the opposite may be true–Google is supercharging a competitor.) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahrain_Petroleum_Company [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proclamation_of_the_Kingdom_of... [3] The alternate hypothesis is it's at distribution. | | |
| ▲ | dmix 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Plus the whole thing of first mover advantage being a myth, especially in the tech industry | | |
| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Plus the whole thing of first mover advantage being a myth, especially in the tech industry Source? That would be surprising! |
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| ▲ | mh- 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I believe they were drawing a parallel to oil commoditization, but that's as far as I got. |
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| ▲ | Urahandystar 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The app layer is Bahrain. | |
| ▲ | catlover76 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [dead] |
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| ▲ | nostromo 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Running AI at a loss long enough to kill the competition would run afoul of antitrust laws. Even more so since they’re bundling their AI products with their search monopoly. Although I doubt this will stop them if they think it’s advantageous… |
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| ▲ | akozak 9 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Lower real operating costs isn't the same thing as below cost pricing. US law here is nuanced. Good quick primer https://www.ftc.gov/advice-guidance/competition-guidance/gui... | |
| ▲ | Bewelge 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I thought that these type of antitrust laws are in no way enforced anymore in the tech industry. And that it's been that way for decades. I mean the sheer existence of Google shows that right? What about Maps, Mail, Books... basically everything apart from Search? Why would an AI Mode as one category of Search results be any different? They're not actively promoting Gemini in those search results. They're simply augmenting it with this new tool that exists now. | | |
| ▲ | er2d 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yes anti-trust is very much theatre nowadays. As long it further's American interests globally - monopoly is fine. Other countries need to take notice and start picking winners nationally in order to compete with the large American big tech firms. | | |
| ▲ | Bewelge 8 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Eh, I think this is actually not a specifically American thing. More of a neo-liberal mindset. Competition may be good in the long term. But a monopoly now may mean more money in your pocket now. The tech giants definitely give the US some geo-political power in some cases but in general the US would be better off with more competition. ed: @er2d, can't reply to your comment for some reason, so doing it here:
I don't agree. In theory a monopoly decreases the necessity for R&D. Of course this becomes more complex if the R&D is funded or steered by the state. But look at the current state of LLMs. There is fierce competition between 3 US companies. But geopolitically it's the same as if there would be one monopoly. The US being the clear technological leader in an industry is not dependent on that industry being a domestic monopoly. And for the Europe comment:
Also don't agree. Look at Boeing & Airbus. Both are companies where the US & EU have decided that they need to ensure the existence of a domestic airplane manufacturer. So in these cases they support these companies (often in violation of international trade laws). But it has nothing to do with monopolies. If a state decides to support a company to ensure its existence, a monopoly is the logical consequence and not the aim. Because if that industry would be profitable it wouldn't need to be supported in the first place. But all these tech companies are not in industries that would move off-shore or stop existing because they're not profitable enough, so it's an entirely different setting. | | |
| ▲ | er2d 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | Nope the reason for a monopoly is incentives for R&D and innovation. The US understands that and allows it to happen as the former yields a compounding effect of power. European states certainly don't get this. |
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| ▲ | SJC_Hacker 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | TSMC ? Airbus ? | | |
| ▲ | er2d 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | Are you claiming they are tech firms in the manner of a Apple, Google etc? lol |
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| ▲ | klabb3 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > run afoul of antitrust laws Now, that’s a name I haven’t heard in a long time. | |
| ▲ | randito 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > antitrust laws. Even more so since they’re bundling their AI products with their search monopoly. couldn't this just be framed / spun as just using search data as training? i don't seem being bundled enough to run afoul with anti-trust. | |
| ▲ | nyc_data_geek1 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Who's going to enforce antitrust laws in this environment, pray tell? | |
| ▲ | Sohcahtoa82 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Running AI at a loss long enough to kill the competition would run afoul of antitrust laws. Running at a loss long enough to kill the competition is basically the name of the game these days. When Uber started, they were basically setting VC money on fire by selling rides at a loss to destroy the taxi market. | |
| ▲ | pixl97 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | >would run afoul of antitrust laws Buwahahahahahahahhahah They drop a little cash on some shitcoin the president controls and those problems go away. | | |
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