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ghtbircshotbe 2 days ago

Many people here are talking about how more powerful people are also corrupt and are getting away with it. All corruption is bad. This soldier put the life of everyone on the mission in danger by doing this.

CodeMage 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

> All corruption is bad.

This is true, just like "all lives matter" is true, and it misses the point in the exact same way.

Those people you are replying to are not saying that this soldier should get away with his corruption because more powerful people are getting away with theirs. They are saying that those who abuse greater power are doing greater harm, and that their corruption should be punished with greater urgency.

On top of the harm the powerful people inflict directly through their corrupt actions, there's a secondary effect on the society at large. Unlike trickle-down economics, trickle-down corruption is a real thing. People see those in power get away with corruption and say "Why should I do the right thing?"

Of course, the usual answer from those in power ends up being "because we have the power to punish you and you don't have the power to punish us". And that's how you end up with the arrest and prosecution of a US soldier on the same 5 counts that the top politicians and their cronies are getting away with on a daily basis, aided by the president himself.

scoofy 2 days ago | parent [-]

Two wrongs don't make a right. Legitimizing small time corruption because bigger corruption exists just legitimizes corrupt behavior in general. It should be offensive no matter who does it.

superultra a day ago | parent | next [-]

How is this comment on hacker news? Do we not understand basic principles of scale?

40 billion of corruption is way more corrupt than 400k.

And what’s more is penalizing the 400k without penalizing the 400b means the people getting the 400b look better.

scoofy 19 hours ago | parent [-]

We can't penalize the 400B corruption. If we could, I would completely agree with OP's point. It's just that it's not a matter of choice.

It's not that we "don't choose to"... We obviously want to, but we can't, because there is an inherent principal-agent problem that exists with high-level corruption.

Again, it's like saying "let's not take the time to charge someone with manslaughter, because there are people out there who have committed war crimes that have killed tens of thousands of people." We all want to bring the war-criminals to justices, but we can't, so it's moot.

We should spend our resources on law enforcement where we can. Otherwise it's a race to the bottom, because with justice, perfect quickly becomes the enemy of good.

SlightlyLeftPad 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Are you my high school football coach defending their bully quarterback son as he terrorizes half the grade and punishing “tattle tails”?

scoofy 9 hours ago | parent [-]

This is not a helpful comment.

CodeMage 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

I have to ask: did you read what I wrote before you replied to me? I know the question might come across as an attack, but it's not. I'm genuinely curious about what process lead to your comment being a reply to mine, when mine explicitly states the following:

> Those people you are replying to are not saying that this soldier should get away with his corruption because more powerful people are getting away with theirs. They are saying that those who abuse greater power are doing greater harm, and that their corruption should be punished with greater urgency.

scoofy 2 days ago | parent [-]

I did read it. Your point is effectively irrelevant. It means the same thing. Creating an "urgency chain" is effectively the same thing as justifying behavior.

It's like saying "we shouldn't worry about enforcing traffic laws because we need to use our resources to bring war criminals to justice" when the reason where not bringing war criminals to justice isn't for lack of concern, it's just that we have no coercive power.

Caring about prioritizing things where we do not have coercive power is pointless.

davidguetta a day ago | parent | next [-]

> Creating an "urgency chain" is effectively the same thing as justifying behavior.

What ? we SHOULD ABSOLUTELY create an urgency chain

CodeMage 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

> It's like saying "we shouldn't worry about enforcing traffic laws because we need to use our resources to bring war criminals to justice"

It most definitely isn't. At no point did anyone in this discussion say "we shouldn't worry about small time corruption". In fact, I explicitly said the opposite. And then I highlighted it after you essentially accused me of doing so, as you're doing again.

> Creating an "urgency chain" is effectively the same thing as justifying behavior.

No, it's not. No one is "creating" an "urgency chain". Justice isn't binary. Things can be more or less just, they're not either perfectly just or completely unjust with nothing in between. Similarly, different people have different levels of impact. That's the definition of power in this context: the level of impact your actions have. No one is "creating" these concepts out of thin air.

What is happening here is that people are complaining about injustice and other people -- like you and the person I initially replied to -- are trying to delegitimize those complaints by stating that "all corruption is bad".

Let me repeat this, in case it got lost despite earlier repetitions: yes, we all know that "all corruption is bad". Just like we all know that "all lives matter", but pointing out that banality only got popular after the "black lives matter" slogan surfaced in response to a systemic injustice against African Americans.

You're doing the same kind of thing here.

> Caring about prioritizing things where we do not have coercive power is pointless.

On the contrary. If you always give up on caring because you don't have coercive power, you will never rectify injustices caused by imbalance of coercive power.

Schiendelman 2 days ago | parent [-]

I want you to know that you are making sense, and I appreciate how calmly and constructively you're engaging. :)

CGMthrowaway 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

They didn't make the bet until after the raid - but before the announcement. Surely they endangered people, perhaps more and different people than simply those on the mission

ghtbircshotbe 2 days ago | parent [-]

Can you provide a reference? From a Reuters article:

> prosecutors said Van Dyke bet more than $33,000 on Polymarket between December 27, 2025, and January 2, 2026, that Maduro would soon be out of office and that U.S. forces would soon enter Venezuela

Maduro was taken on January 3.

https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/us-soldier-charged-...

themafia 2 days ago | parent [-]

Unless someone knows the bets are placed by an insider how does this create any sort of risk?

runamok a day ago | parent | next [-]

I mean just the fact that bets are being placed could have tipped off the target and made them prepared.

HDThoreaun 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Incentivizes him to take on more risk to ensure mission success.

When someone bets 32k that a political opponent of the US is going to be kidnapped I think its fair to say some will assume it was placed by an insider.

themafia 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

What exactly would that look like from the position of an individual low rank unit? What would $32k of risk look like on a foreign battle field? I'm struggling to understand this prerogative.

What would be far larger source of risk is if they bet _against_ the operation and then personally sabotaged it. That's far more understandable but it's not what happened here.

It apparently and sadly needs to be said on Hacker News, I'm not defending him, and he should be punished, but I genuinely can't apprehend the risk assessment logic here.

mizzao 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

He's a master sergeant, once of the highest enlisted ranks, involved in planning the mission. Not low rank at all.

throwaway85825 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

A lot of people were involved with the mission that were not themselves directly endangered but could still stand to profit.

HDThoreaun 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Easy to think of a scenario where he should stand down but instead continues with the mission, risking the lives of his team mates, or maybe civilians.

b0rtb0rt 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

he was more incentivized for the mission to succeed? how horrible!

acdha 2 days ago | parent [-]

He was incentivized to win the bet. The military does not want people to have outside loyalties because that creates problems any time they’re not perfectly aligned – for example, if they had orders to minimize team or civilian casualties you don’t want this guy starting a messy firefight because he’s thinking the target is getting away and willing to risk someone else’s lives for half a million dollars.

You also have to think about leaning information: if people do this, bodyguards around the world are going to monitor betting markets looking for unexplained changes. The military doesn’t like anything which can leak timing information since that increases the risk of a mission failing.

enraged_camel 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

All corruption is bad. Selective enforcement of the law is worse. It increases corruption by giving a strong incentive to win favors from powerful people.

nonethewiser 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Do you think this guy's chances of getting away with it would have increased if he solicited favors from powerful people?

throwaway85825 a day ago | parent [-]

A pardon costs ~1M, just need to still more than that and you're golden.

cucumber3732842 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

At least they're still pretending to not be corrupt.

Inequality codified into the law, literal separate rules, is worse still.

theptip 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Both are true. No sympathy for this guy if he’s guilty as charged.

But also don’t forget that this guy’s trades are a drop in the ocean compared to the rest of the likely insider trading that’s visible in the Polymarket logs. (Eg on timing of Iran attacks, Trump tariff announcements, etc)

ncr100 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yes, and:

It's a short step from the Congress people taking advantage of foreknowledge, vs them MAKING self advantageous opportunities. And it's not guaranteed their "making" is in the public interest.

TSiege 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The sentiment is not that this man shouldn't be prosecuted it is that the blatant double standard and growing endemic societal cancer that is corruption is being allowed to blossom while leaders target scape goats for the same behavior. What this administration is trying to signal with going after this guy is that the problem is not with them, it's someone else, that they're on the up and up. It is why scapegoating is an effective tactic

superxpro12 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

relevant: https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/boards-policy-regulat...

fsckboy 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

it's a blatant double standard if you have evidence of people "doing it and getting away with it", but you don't, you just suspect it. and it's scapegoating if blame is centered on a person or group to explain away the totality of a widespread (or made up) problem, and that is also not happening here, instead "a person did something" and got arrested.

tranceylc 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

I don’t understand the point of denying reality when it unfolds in front of you. Plenty of evidence for these things. Denial of obvious truth is an American epidemic and cultural export

HDThoreaun 2 days ago | parent [-]

The point is that none of the congressional cases would end in a conviction. So unless you want to suspend rule of law theres not really much we can do without some hard evidence.

kodt 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

https://finance.yahoo.com/markets/options/articles/us-senato...

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/apr/08/polymarket-...

2 days ago | parent | prev [-]
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copper4eva 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

These things aren't mutually exclusive. I don't see what is wrong with rightfully complaining about how insider trading is very rampant.

This soldier deserves his punishment. I just wish they would enforce these laws on our congressmen.

alberto467 2 days ago | parent [-]

Unfortunately enforcing any laws on congressmen is very difficult.

In all decent democracies elected politicians have immunity or similar safeguards, since the separation of powers (as theorized by Montesquieu in the middle of illuminism) which represents the foundation of democracy demands that both the legislative and executive power be separated from the judicial one.

“Making the politicians pay for their crimes” is often just a populist argument, while there are ways to incriminate them, expecting that they can be prosecuted like us normal citizens is not compatible with democracy.

You may not like what I said but I said it. Go read the original works by Montesquieu, he understood it first.

techdmn 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

I would argue the opposite, that having members of government who CANNOT be prosecuted like normal citizens is not compatible with democracy. I would think arguments to the contrary would have to assume other impediments to a properly functioning justice system, such as politically motivated prosecutions, widespread selective enforcement, etc.

trollbridge 2 days ago | parent [-]

The mechanism is that voters should vote out corrupt congressmen.

This is a classic “who will guard the guards themselves?” dilemma.

alberto467 2 days ago | parent [-]

Exactly. And the same is true of the judicial system btw, who must stay separate from other powers, meaning that it also has to police itself, which can create its own issues.

These are just the (little) costs of democracy. If you aren’t ready to pay them, you haven’t really considered the alternatives.

inetknght 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

What one theorycrafter says does not make it right; nobody should be above the law in a democracy. We should have no kings in a democracy.

mcepl 2 days ago | parent [-]

You said SHOULD. Yes, I absolutely agree that politicians (and I very intentionally do not call any names) should be criminally punished most harshly for abusing their position for personal enrichment or for some other egoistical goals. On the other hand, these are the people we, as totality of all voters, chose for their function. The main punishment for a politician in democracy should be the threat of losing next elections, not criminal prosecution. And of course, per definition, in every democracy every politician has a majority of citizens, who considers him stupid and in the hysterical environment of the current political life (hysterical for many more or less good reasons) such politician is not only opponent, but an enemy if not a traitor. There is an unfortunate tendency to convert this adversarial feeling into full blown hate and accusations of criminal misconduct.

2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]
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nonethewiser 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's posturing. And a very predictable narrative. Of course the DOJ did the right thing here. But how can we frame it so that the DOJ=bad?

michaelsshaw 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> This soldier put the life of everyone on the mission in danger by doing this.

Good. Unfortunately, they succeeded. If there was any moral justice in this world, every single US soldier involved with this would have died a horrible death. Fuck them. This was just another in a long string of global terroristic events that the US was involved in.

Being a member of the US military is morally wrong. And yes, I include you(now or in the past) and all of your family members in that equation. There is no doubt about the immorality of the US military apparatus.

shortstuffsushi 2 days ago | parent [-]

Man, you've been on a streak of these purely vitriolic posts. Maybe take a break from the internet for a bit? These posts read like someone who needs help.

michaelsshaw a day ago | parent [-]

I didn't realize that acknowledging the enormous amount of bad blood the US has sowed was sign of mental illness.

45qyqy45 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[flagged]

AnimalMuppet 2 days ago | parent [-]

Isn't this war profiteering, just with a slight indirection?

And what does Paul Graham have to do with it?

afroboy 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

*He's a terrorist that put the life of other terrorists in danger.

8954789543547 16 hours ago | parent [-]

[dead]

folkrav 14 hours ago | parent [-]

Is the far left in the room with us?

akmiller 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The issue is that the people enforcing this have made a huge amount of money doing the same thing, but with a full on war!

freedomben 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Thank you, this was my first thought as well. He essentially leaked classified mission info for the purpose of scoring some cash on it. Insider trading in congress is a big problem too, but there are some real differences here.

trollbridge 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Such as that Congress can legally do insider trading since they won’t pass a law outlawing it.

TheCoelacanth 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

They literally did pass a law outlawing it in 2012. Enforcement has been very poor, though.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STOCK_Act

2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]
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freedomben 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Yes, absolutely. It's truly grotesque what they've done (exempting themselves from laws that apply to everyone else).

idiotsecant 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Yes, those real differences are that the soldier was not the chair of any powerful legislative committees.

2 days ago | parent | prev [-]
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