Magic: The Gathering took me from N2 to Japanese fluency

ngruhn 39 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Cute premise but reads like a LinkedIn post (or maybe just AI).

For sure an AI write up

	▲	simonjgreen 23 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		Certainly AI editorialised. I wonder if this is because English isn’t their first language, and they are confidence compensating. I’ve worked with a lot of folks also from Philippines and the Tagalog/English mix leads to some confidence challenges sometimes.

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vunderba 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Nice. Back when I lived in Taiwan, several of my students regularly played Magic: The Gathering (魔法風雲會). I’d been playing since 4th edition so I was already very familiar with it. Combined with the fact that I was studying traditional Chinese at the time, it turned out to be quite helpful.

Incidental language exposure through gaming is an awesome way to learn.

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nadermx an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Can't imagine using MTG to learn a language. But it does seem intuitive in hindsight. Back when I played in the junior super series and nationals I could recall almost every card and what it did. So I can see how that leap would be tantermount. Kudos.

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darren_ an hour ago | parent | next [-]

> Can't imagine using MTG to learn a language.

Note that he's starting from N2 Japanese, which is already a high level of Japanese proficiency (although it does not test writing/speaking at all, so it's very feasible to have N2 yet be terrible at conversation). He's not exactly learning hiragana from M:TG.

The M:TG competitions are giving him a framework to practice that conversation, which believe it or not can be hard to come by in Tokyo without deliberate effort (see 'expat bubble'). The vocab/grammar on the cards is mostly incidental to all that. If he was playing online M:TG in Japanese he wouldn't be getting anywhere near the payoff.

	▲	simonjgreen 21 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		Yup, super important point. None of the JLPT exams test output, only comprehension. It’s a really interesting gap!

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ufocia an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

tantamount

	▲	nadermx an hour ago \| parent [-]
		MTG skills don't translate to spelling. Thanks

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rustyhancock an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Contraversial opinion perhaps, I don't think the cards or the game itself took him to fluency.

Probably the social contact.

I mean N2 (JLPT levels run from N5 competent beginner to N1). Is really quite advanced.

Being N2 is far further than many will ever make it into learning Japanese. To arrive at N2 is very impressive. I think typically N3 is minimum for work on Japan (outside of lower end jobs or things like TEFL).

But JLPT is heavy on theory and light on practice.

It makes sense to me that someone with very little practice but pretty advanced grammar, vocabulary (including Kanji and spelling). Would rapidly pick up fluency if they got a reason to speak.

Not to discount the MtG effect but N2 is approximately CEFR B2 which is fluent. It's just that N2 doesn't assess fluency meaning you can get there with near zero confidence in conversational Japanese.

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Jabbles an hour ago | parent [-]

> CEFR B2 which is fluent

That certainly is controversial. I don't think many people would consider anyone who is fluent to only be B2.

	▲	rustyhancock an hour ago \| parent [-]
		Yes I know it's an odd claim. But I as far as I recall B2 is when you start seeing native people failing the exam without preparation with C2 becoming a legitimate challenge for native speakers. I believe the same threshold exists in N2 but because it's so Kanji focused without much assessment of fluency.