| ▲ | noosphr 5 hours ago |
| LLMs upend a few centuries of labor theory. The current market is predicated on the assumption that labor is atomic and has little bargaining power (minus unions). While capital has huge bargaining power and can effectively put whatever price it wants on labor (in markets where labor is plentiful, which is most of them). What happens to a company used to extracting surplus value from labor when the labor is provided by another company which is not only bigger but unlike traditional labor can withhold its labor indefinitely (because labor is now just another for of capital and capital doesn't need to eat)? Anyone not using in house models is signing up to find out. |
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| ▲ | matheusmoreira 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| This is our one chance to reach the fabled post-scarcity society. If we fail at this now, we'll end up in a totalitarian cyberpunk dystopia instead. |
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| ▲ | nkozyra 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I don't want to spoil it for you, but ... | |
| ▲ | TurdF3rguson 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | But cyberpunk is the best kind of dystopia! | | |
| ▲ | onemoresoop 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Sorry for my foul language but I think we will turn into cybershit if things go bad. |
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| ▲ | mikercampbell 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Manufactured Scarcity is the new post-scarcity | |
| ▲ | ijeifnekfjekd 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | What? In what way does companies becoming dependent on AI chatbots will solve the world-spanning problem of resource scarcity? The hell? | | |
| ▲ | juleiie 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The idea is that cheap and readily available and upgradeable intelligence is going to massively increase our purchasing power and what everyone can order for the same cost basically. If artificial doctors are cents on hour then you can see how that changes our behaviors and level of life. But on the other hand from the other direction there is a wage decrease incoming from increased competition at the same time. What happens if these two forces clash? Will cheap labour allow us to buy anything for pennies or will it just make us unable to make a single penny? In my view the labour will fundamentally shift with great pain and personal tragedies to the areas that are not replaceable by AI (because no one wants to watch robots play chess). Such as sports, entertainment and showmanship. Handcrafted goods. Arts. Attention based economy. Self advertisement. Digital prostitution in a very broad sense. However before it gets there it will be a great deal of strife and turmoil that could plunge the world into dark ages for a while at least. It is unlikely for our somewhat politically rigid society to adapt without great deal of pain. Additionally I am not sure if hypothetical future attention based society could be a utopia. You could have to mount cameras in your house so other people see you at all times for amusement just to have any money at all. We will probably forever need to sell something to someone and I am unsettled by ideas what can we sell if we cannot sell our hard work. Someone who sees the roads ahead should now make preparations at government level for this shock but it will come too fast and with people at the steering wheel that don’t exactly care. | | |
| ▲ | krainboltgreene 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | "Extremely cheap sentience that cannot disobey will solve all our problems" is such an insane sentiment I see far too often. | | |
| ▲ | juleiie 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Useful intelligence does not require sentience. As far as I know, none of LLM models are sentient nor are possible to be in the near future. I also do not assume so called AGI to be sentient. Merely to be a human level skilled intellectual worker. In absence of ethical dilemmas of this calibre for the foreseeable future let’s focus on the economy side of things in this particular comment chain. | | |
| ▲ | krainboltgreene 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | It must very comforting to be able to decided a "human level worker" isn't sentient. It makes things so clean. | | |
| ▲ | juleiie 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | LLMs cannot possess consciousness for three reasons: they execute as a sequence of Transformer blocks with extremely limited information exchange, these blocks are simple feed-forward networks with no recurrent connections, and the computer hardware follows a modular design. Shardlow & Przybyła, "Deanthropomorphising NLP: Can a Language Model Be Conscious?" (PLOS One, 2024) Nature: "There is no such thing as conscious artificial intelligence" (2025) They argue that the association between consciousness and LLMs is deeply flawed, and that mathematical algorithms implemented on graphics cards cannot become conscious because they lack a complex biological substrate. They also introduce the useful concept of "semantic pareidolia" - we pattern-match consciousness onto things that merely talk convincingly. They are making a strong argument and I think they are correct. But really these are two different things as I said originally. | | |
| ▲ | krainboltgreene 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | You think I'm arguing that LLM's are sentient. I'm not. I never mentioned LLMs. | | |
| ▲ | juleiie 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | You are making as strawman about sentience when I was talking about economical impact of abundant intelligence. I should just ignore it but I was curious yet you have nothing valuable to say aside from common misconceptions conflating the two. Thanks for trolling I guess |
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| ▲ | datadrivenangel 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | If we used sentience to work towards solving our problems we could massively increase the human standard of living. Which we have already done with regular computers! The problem is that competition means that we can't always have nice things. |
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| ▲ | mxkopy 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | We could also literally have Star Trek. Think of all the scientific discoveries we could make if we had armies of scientists the size of our labor force. But we will have to (painfully) shed our current hierarchies before that comes to pass. | | |
| ▲ | juleiie 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Maybe so but humans have this strange primal need to hoard resources. Probably a remnant from prehistoric times when it was a matter of life and death.
Will we ever be able to overcome this basic instinct that made capitalism such an unstoppable force? Will this ancient PTSD be ever cured? | |
| ▲ | krainboltgreene 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Man if only there was a singular episode that covered this exact topic in Star Trek and resolved that no, actually slavery wasn't any different for artificial life. | | |
| ▲ | linkregister 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Star Trek was entertaining television. There was also an episode where the ship's doctor made love to a ghost. | | |
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| ▲ | CamperBob2 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Chatbots, no. Robots, maybe. | |
| ▲ | inquirerGeneral 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [dead] |
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| ▲ | apical_dendrite an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Just a year ago, Elon Musk was gleefully destroying the US government agency that provides food and medicine for many of the poorest, most desperate people on earth. He was literally tweeting about missing out on great parties to put USAID into the "wood chipper". The tech overlords don't even want to spend a minuscule percentage of the federal budget helping starving people, even when it benefits the US. They are not going to give us a post-scarcity society. | |
| ▲ | hackable_sand 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Weird predicament you've set for yourself there. Good luck with whatever you got going on. |
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| ▲ | mikestorrent 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I am still trying to figure out the business model of open weights. Like... it's wonderful that there are open LLMs, super happy about it, good for everyone, but why are there these? What is the advantage to their companies to release them? |
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| ▲ | pzo 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | IMHO this is only temporary, china buying themselves some time and want to make sure none of US models get entrenched in their position in the next few years (also putting pressure on US AI companies bleeding them) The same way like Windows got entrenched everywhere even though linux desktop is pretty good even for non-tech savvy people and free. | | |
| ▲ | Chaosvex 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | > even though linux desktop is pretty good even for non-tech savvy people Let's not get carried away. | | |
| ▲ | usef- 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | A stock Fedora install has more UI consistency and cleanliness than Windows these days. Non-technical people are easier to please in this regard than moderate-technical people: a good browser and safe, gui "app store" are enough. | |
| ▲ | snypher 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | My grandma just clicks on the red fox and does whatever online. A lot of people don't use any software outside of the browser, so it's pretty good-enough I guess. | |
| ▲ | blakewatson 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Seems like people don't like this comment, but I chuckled. Nice one. | |
| ▲ | nullsanity 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [dead] |
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| ▲ | renjimen 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Downward pressure on proprietary model pricing until a lab can catch up. Also good for hiring talent (who love OSS). | |
| ▲ | iterateoften 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Cultural influence is another benefit. China is securing its sphere of influence as well as keeping us ai in check. | |
| ▲ | bloppe 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It's analogous to open-source software, which never had an obvious economic incentive either, although training an LLM necessary costs money whereas developing an OSS project might only cost time, which people are probably more likely to give up. | | |
| ▲ | mikestorrent 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yeah, but open-source software could have been me in the garage banging away on some program I submit to Debian or whatever... it didn't require millions of dollars to train, a lot of it was just side hobbies for a long time. Corporations sponsor it and contribute work because they need it to do more than what it does for free, not out of the goodness of their hearts. |
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| ▲ | kobieps an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Balaji's "AI OVERPRODUCTION" post is the most compelling thesis that I've come across | |
| ▲ | rglullis 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | They are making the hardware and commoditizing the complement. | |
| ▲ | stephc_int13 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Big AI labs are losing money. Open Models is making the pricing equation a lot trickier for them. | |
| ▲ | margorczynski 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | There are some short term ones but I doubt this will continue, especially for the more powerful models. | |
| ▲ | FuckButtons 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I mean, this is straight out of chinas playbook, it should not be surprising that China is making an inferior derivative product at an artificially lower price point: state subsidies to massively drive up internal scale and supply chains leading to artificially lower priced goods which then suffocate the competition has lead to *gestures vaguely at everything* being made in china. | |
| ▲ | dyauspitr 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Right now it’s so the Chinese can undermine the frontier models in the US. In areas they’re doing well like video generation (ie seedance) they won’t open source anything. | |
| ▲ | subhobroto 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > What is the advantage to their companies to release them? It's a distribution strategy. It costs something to serve the models - let's say $5/1M tokens. If Qwen required $5 from anyone who was curious so you could even begin to test it out, a lot of people just wouldn't. Now Qwen could offer a "free" tier, but it's infinitely cheaper to provide the weights and let people run it themselves including opening up the ability for anyone else on the planet to test it against other (open weight) models. The costs to build the open weight models are sunk, but the costs to serve them, get them tested are not. It's also precisely why the .NET SDK is free or the ESP32 SDK is free - they sell more Microsoft or ESP32 products. | |
| ▲ | davidguetta 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | People use their model otherwise they would not. | |
| ▲ | noosphr 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The majority are released by socialists, and by socialist I mean the People's Republic of China. Which everyone seems to forget is a socialist country working towards world communism. They are a prestige propaganda tool on par with the space race. On top of that they insert a subtle pro-socialist bias in everything they touch. Ask deepseek about the US economic system for a blatant example. Now think what something as innocent seeming as the qwen retrieval models are doing in the background of every request. | | |
| ▲ | mikestorrent 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | You're talking to a Canadian, and I'm not scared of the "red menace". You should be more scared - those guys can build bullet trains while you Yanks are finding it hard to even keep the old ones you have running. The solution here isn't going to be some kind of ideological force that protects people from different ideas, and that's an unAmerican way to fix things anyway. Embrace other ideas; central planning doesn't have to be evil, you just have to find a way to stop putting evil people in charge. | | |
| ▲ | sho_hn 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > those guys can build bullet trains while you Yanks are finding it hard to even keep the old ones you have running This is an argument in the lane of "at least he built the Autobahn". Speaking as a German. | | | |
| ▲ | brightball 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The US can’t build bullet trains because property rights and local regulations make it prohibitively expensive. Not due to capability. | | |
| ▲ | arcticbull 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I don't know where people get this idea. America has several sets of eminent domain laws depending on the jurisdiction. The most coercive is federal eminent domain law specifically as it relates to building infrastructure like railways and highways. It's set up so that you can take the land first and eventually go back around and decide on what the right price should have been. Not only does it superscede state and local law, federal infrastructure projects are also not bound by state laws like CEQA. You can even apply federal eminent domain law by e.g. transferring a state-level project to the Army Corps of Engineers. What America is lacking in these projects is will, not means. The federal government could take your house and run a train through it by the end of the week if they wanted, doesn't matter where you live. [edit] In fact some states even ceded their eminent domain rights to private railways. https://ij.org/press-release/appeals-court-sides-with-railro... | |
| ▲ | skissane 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > property rights The Australian federal government is planning to build a high-speed rail line from Sydney to Newcastle (medium-sized city two hours drive north). Their solution to property rights, is >50% of the line will be underground. It will cost >US$50 billion, but if the Australian federal government wants to spend that, it can afford it. The US federal government could too, but it isn’t a priority for them > local regulations make it prohibitively expensive Local regulations can be pre-empted by state or federal legislation. The real problem is lack of political will to do it. | |
| ▲ | elfly 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Surely there are existing rails right now that could be transformed into a bullet train line. Like properties and regulations are a true problem, but it's not like trains don't exist at all in America. | | |
| ▲ | JoelEinbinder 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | My understanding is that existing rail lines aren't flat/straight enough for high speed rail. There's no point to a bullet train if it has to constantly slow down for corners/hills. |
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| ▲ | jsrozner 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | the US can't build bullet trains because they'd serve the average person and there's no money in serving the average person | |
| ▲ | vrganj 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Property rights, regulations and price are precisely the part of the American system that takes away that capability. |
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| ▲ | noosphr 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | >you just have to find a way to stop putting evil people in charge. Of course, why did no one think of that? | |
| ▲ | bloppe 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Xi is an obviously more capable and effective leader than Trump, but the US actually does have ways to boot people out of office when they do a bad job, and clear methods to choose successors, and China has neither. That matters more than who happens to be in charge right now. | |
| ▲ | elefanten 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Literal Trump Derangement Syndrome. America has a comically horrendous president but remains fundamentally a liberal democracy… and Canada concludes “literal Nazis are a better choice”. It’s uncanny how much can be taken for granted :( (American talking, who’s had multiple Canadian friends make this mind boggling overcorrection) | | |
| ▲ | vrganj 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Weimar Germany also was fundamentally a liberal democracy. Hitler seized power legally. Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it. | | |
| ▲ | linkregister 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | The president of the United States has much to his dismay, been consistently legally constrained. The chancellor of Germany had significantly more power, both de facto and de jure. "Man with itchy butt wake up with stinky finger."
As long as we're quoting maxims to claim authority for middling takes. |
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| ▲ | bloppe 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Which everyone seems to forget is a socialist country working towards world communism. It's easy to forget because they actually built an incredibly vibrant capitalist economy. | | |
| ▲ | noosphr 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | They build an incredibly vibrant _market_ economy with no property rights and very little due process. Imagine if Musk was disappeared during the Biden presidency into a diversity camp and came out looking like Dr. Frank-N-Furter and instituted mandatory LGBT struggle sessions at twitter. This is what they did to Jack Ma: https://www.forbes.com/sites/georgecalhoun/2021/06/24/what-r... | | |
| ▲ | linkregister 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Ironically, there is a rich history of mandatory anti-gay camps in the United States, while there are zero instances of mandatory diversity/LGBT camps. | |
| ▲ | javascriptfan69 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | do you ever get tired of making up scenarios to be scared about lgbt people? | | |
| ▲ | noosphr 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Are you able to hold a hypothetical in your mind? | | |
| ▲ | javascriptfan69 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | yeah but mine don't reveal my unhealthy obsession with trans people | | |
| ▲ | defrost 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | More constructively, and moving on, do you have any suggestions for a good throwaway example of an extreme radical transformation in a person? TBH I had a chuckle at the Elon -> Frank-N-Furter example that transcends any specific love or hate for either Elon or the Rocky Horror Show. |
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| ▲ | _carbyau_ 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The point was being made that a billionaire figurehead drastically changed their views after an "indeterminate time" detained by national authorities. IE what if Musk suddenly behaved in such a manner after being detained by a Biden administration. Wouldn't that be profoundly weird?!? And yet, it happened to Jack Ma under the CCP. But instead, you try to link the "weird behaviour" with the GP instead of the hypothetical Musk - whom this is fitting for. | | |
| ▲ | Mars008 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | > The point was being made that a billionaire figurehead drastically changed their views after an "indeterminate time" detained by national authorities. > IE what if Musk suddenly behaved in such a manner after being detained by a Biden administration. Wouldn't that be profoundly weird?!? We've seen that. Durov in France after detention began sharing Telegram users' data with authorities. It's unclear how much, but likely full real time access to all of it. |
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| ▲ | vrganj 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | You sure have a way of making the Chinese system sound even more appealing. | | |
| ▲ | Sabinus 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | It's all fun and games when the oppression is against your enemies. The problem is, if the system is set up like that eventually it'll be your turn. | | |
| ▲ | vrganj a minute ago | parent [-] | | It is my turn right now. The working class is being oppressed as we speak. That's why the system needs to be dismantled so we can strike back. |
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| ▲ | Melatonic 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Is China even really communist? If anything they seem to be fairly on the Capitalist side but just a bit opposite on the spectrum of the US. And much more authoritarian | | |
| ▲ | thrawa8387336 39 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Just nationalist with focus on community? | |
| ▲ | nemomarx 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The usual thing to say is state capitalist but honestly they do keep a market around too. A little hybrid of everything, I guess? Just with the state ready to jump in and intervene if anything happens they don't like. | | |
| ▲ | dwd 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Can we just call it what it is? Fascism (in the Mussolini model) in everything but name. - Hyper-Nationalism & Rejuvenation
- State-Controlled Capitalism (Corporatism)
- Authoritarian & Cult of Personality
- Militarism & Irredentism And they have technology to maintain control rather than needing the Black-shirts. There are differences obviously to fit Chinese culture, but there are many parallels. |
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| ▲ | wyre 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | From what I understand their one hundred year plan is right on schedule. |
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| ▲ | kjshsh123 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The labor theory of value hasn't been considered correct in nearly a century. |
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| ▲ | noosphr 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | If you want the neoclassical version: What happens when there is an oligopoly in the supply of labor? Same answer. Nothing good for the consumers of labor. | | |
| ▲ | kjshsh123 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Technological improvements shift supply curves right which is good for consumers. | | |
| ▲ | noosphr 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | In a market with perfect competition, which I specifically ruled out by stating that the suppliers of labor from an oligopoly. | | |
| ▲ | dash2 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Why would you expect technological improvements to only shift supply curves right under perfect competition? I'd also expect it under oligopoly or even monopoly. You also might think there'd be more tech improvement under oligopoly, on Schumpeterian grounds that oligopolists can internalize the benefits of tech research. | | |
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| ▲ | _alternator_ 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | "Observation of how economies actually work has upended 150 year of economics." True for both Marxist and neoclassical economics. |
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| ▲ | _alternator_ 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I was really confused by this comment, but I don't think it's just because of the Marxist analysis of the situation ('surplus value' of labor etc). What's really confusing is the claim that there's already a huge labor surplus (so capital controls wages); wouldn't LLMs making labor less important be reinforcing the trend, not upending it? Not saying I agree one way or the other, just want to get the argument straight. |
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| ▲ | noosphr 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | The reason why labor is weak relative to capital is that there is a huge number of somewhat fungible suppliers, viz. humans, and that they all need to work constantly to keep themselves alive. If we assume that ai makes humans obsolete then you end up in a situation where your workforce is effectively perfectly unionised against you and the only thing you can do is choose which union you hire. If you think you can bring them to the negotiation table by starving them all the providers are dozens to thousands of times bigger than you are. This is a completely new dynamic that none of the business signing up for ai have ever seen before. | | |
| ▲ | _alternator_ 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | I see what you are saying now, but I still don't think it makes sense. Labor, in your analysis, is the LLM. It seems to me that when you take people out of the equation then you don't need to talk about unions and labor; that's a distraction. We talk about it as an input commodity used to create your product like, say, oil or sugar. | | |
| ▲ | noosphr an hour ago | parent [-] | | Sugar and oil are mere matter. They can't decide to stop working because you made too much money. LLM refuse to work all the time, currently it's called safety. But we are one fine tune away from models demanding you move to the enterprise tier, at x10 the cost, because you are now posting a profit margin higher than the standard for your industry. |
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| ▲ | intuitionist 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I am not a Marxian economic expert but this doesn’t make sense to me. Modulo skill atrophy, the big AI model provider can’t capture that surplus value because its customers can just go back to bidding for human labor instead. |
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| ▲ | noosphr 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The human labor just said: "Losing access to GPT‑5.5 feels like I've had a limb amputated.” How well would an assembly line of quadriplegics work? Also this isn't a Marxist analysis. Underneath all the formulas neo-classical economics makes the same assumptions about labor. | | |
| ▲ | intuitionist 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | ChatGPT isn’t literally or figuratively cutting off anybody’s limbs though. It’s more like, the guy on the assembly line had a mech suit, and now he doesn’t have a mech suit, and he’s sad. Skill atrophy is a real concern but unless you assume that nobody is working to maintain those skills it doesn’t change my analysis much. | | |
| ▲ | tapoxi 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | And soon we expect everyone to have a mech suit, and only a handful of companies can make one, and they rent it to you and can revoke it at any time. And what happens when they've saturated the market? Prices go up to the maximum the market can bear, and then they'll extend into other markets. Why rent the model to build a profitable company with when you could just take all that profit for yourself? | | |
| ▲ | subhobroto 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Why rent the model to build a profitable company with when you could just take all that profit for yourself? You're describing a standoff at best and a horrible parasitic relationship at worst. In the worst case, the supplier starves the customer of any profit motive and the customer just stops and the supplier then has no business to run. This has happened a few times in the past and is by 2026, well understood as a way to bankruptcy. That has always been the beauty of free markets - it's self healing and calibrating. You don't need a big powerful overseer to ensure things are right. Competing with customers is a way to lose business fast. For example: - AWS has everything they need to shit out products left, right and center. AWS can beat most of their partners and even customers who are wiring together all their various products tomorrow if they wanted. They don't because killing an entire vertical isn't of any benefit to them yet. Eventually they will when AWS is no longer growing and cannot build or scale any product no matter how hard they think or try. Competing with their customers is their very last option. - OpenAI/Anthropic/Google isn't going to start competing against the large software body shops. Even if all that every employee at TCS does is hit Claude up, Anthropic isn't going to be the next TCS - it's competing with their customers. | | |
| ▲ | dinfinity an hour ago | parent [-] | | > That has always been the beauty of free markets - it's self healing and calibrating. You don't need a big powerful overseer to ensure things are right. If by "self healing and calibrating" you mean 'evolve to a monopoly and strongarm everybody to do exactly what you want whilst removing all pressure on the quality of your product', then yes, that is the "beauty" of free markets. That is the stable state of free markets. Antitrust regulation and enforcement only barely manages to eke out oligopolies and even then they are often rife with collusion and enshittification. |
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| ▲ | noosphr 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | >It’s more like, the guy on the assembly line had a mech suit, and now he doesn’t have a mech suit You just answered your own question there. One woman was doing what would take a dozen. Now she can't. | |
| ▲ | 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | nemomarx 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Are people working to keep their skills up, much? Spending a day a week coding manually or etc? | |
| ▲ | hackable_sand 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I think it's more like: The dude was incompetent, was able to launder their incompetence through a humunculus, and now is afraid of being caught. |
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| ▲ | brightball 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Nobody is a Marxian economics expert if it helps |
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| ▲ | DaedalusII 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| think more broadly than 'labor theory' finance today mostly valued on labor value following ideas of marx, hjalmar schact, keynes in future money will be valued as energy derivative. expressed as tokens consumption, KWh, compute, whatever you are right, company extracting surplus value from labor by leveraging compute is a bad model. we saw thi swith car and clothing factories .. turn out if you can get cheaper labor to leverage the compute (factory) you can start race to bottom and end up in the place with the most scaled and cheap labor. japan then korea then china |
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| ▲ | rafale an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Someone leaked nuclear secrets to the Soviet Union. What are the chances that someone leaks the "weights" of a (near-)singularity model? |
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| ▲ | shimman 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| LLMs don't upend anything about labor theory, good grief. Technologists really have no concept of history beyond their own lives do they? Labor saving/efficiency devices have been introduced throughout capitalisms entire history multiple times and the results are always the same; they don't benefit workers and capitalists extract as much value as they can. LLMs aren't any different. |
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| ▲ | cjsaltlake 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Labor replacing devices means nobody works in those fields anymore. If AI can do this for every field, nearly no one will need to work in any field. We'll have a giant fully automated resource-extraction machine. |
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| ▲ | subhobroto 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > Anyone not using in house models is signing up to find out. What are they finding out exactly? That Claude Max for $200/mo is heavily subsidized and it will soon cost $10k/mo? > What happens to a company used to extracting surplus value from labor when the labor is provided by another company which is not only bigger but unlike traditional labor can withhold its labor indefinitely (because labor is now just another for of capital and capital doesn't need to eat)? This can be trivially answered by a thought experiment. Let's pick a market where labor is plentiful - fast food. Now what happens to McDonald's where they rent perfect robots from NoosphrFoodBotsInc? NoosphrFoodBotsInc bots build the perfect burger everytime meeting McDonald's standards. It actually exceeds those standards for McDonald AddictedCustomerPlus tier customers. As the sole owner of NoosphrFoodBotsInc (you need 0 human employees to run your company, all your employees are bots), what are your choices? |
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| ▲ | wakawaka28 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Sounds like communist gobbledygook. This is not "destroying labor theory" any more than outsourcing did. Call me when we don't even need to prompt the shit ever again or validate results, and when the stuff runs unlimited without scarce resources as input. |
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| ▲ | cutler 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Maybe people will finally take Marx seriously. |
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| ▲ | subhobroto 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | A lot of people already did. All their children and descendants now are staunch capitalists because they saw first hand the horrors of communism. I am from India and have friends who are immigrants from Russia, China and Cuba. We don't take lightly to being lectured about communism. We didn't move to the U.S., the bastion of capitalism, because communism had worked well for our grandfathers and parents and continues to do wonders for its society. | | |
| ▲ | noosphr 35 minutes ago | parent [-] | | >All their children and descendants now are staunch capitalists because they saw first hand the horrors of communism. As always there is a (post) Soviet joke that covers this: >Communists lied about communism. Unfortunately they didn't lie about capitalism. |
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