| ▲ | Trannosaur 8 hours ago |
| What is it with mesh projects and having these super draconian trademark enforcers? Meshtastic is the same. One of the main reasons I got interested in MeshCore was reading the Meshtastic trademark rules and just finding them... really really over the top. |
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| ▲ | SchemaLoad 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| I get the feeling the culture in radio is just not the same as regular open source. The free unrestricted sharing of things is an unusual quirk in the world rather than the norm. |
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| ▲ | tbyehl 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I don't know any of the players but I'd bet they're licensed amateur radio operators. |
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| ▲ | linsomniac 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I will say in Northern Colorado a LOT of the people involved in the MeshCore are HAMs. | | |
| ▲ | neltnerb 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Heh, I use MeshCore in Massachusetts and my layperson explanation is that MeshCore is for people who would be HAMs except they don't have the patience to take an exam. You're probably more correct, but not having the FCC as a barrier to entry using $20 hardware means a passing curiosity becomes me installing a repeater on our roof with a cavity filter that reaches half a city. It's super fun. I was using a vibe coded UI (unrelated to this guy) that wasn't super disclosed and each dot revision a new basic thing broke. One I couldn't upgrade the firmware without a full reflash. Now I have to turn bluetooth off and back on to connect to it each time. In both cases it worked fine before that revision came out. Was it because of vibe coding? I mean... it sure seems likely. Maybe it just needs actual testing? At the same time it is seemingly the only UI firmware that supports bluetooth to my phone, uses map tiles on an SD card to show GPS maps (I have a tdeck so it has an LCD suitable for it), and runs on a tdeck. Oh, and our local channel names are too long for the ripple firmware (perhaps fixed by now) and the channel number limit was like 4? Maybe 10? Arbitrarily low in any case. So like... I'm still using this vibe coded UI that breaks some new basic functionality each revision. I can connect to it over bluetooth (even if it's now unreliable), I can use my literally like 1 million map tiles with the GPS, I can actually enter the channel names, and I can have up to 20 channels. | | |
| ▲ | linsomniac 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | I came up with a way to install a repeater 20ft up a mast that's been on top of the building my office is in, but it's been idle since the TV station that used to be in here left. It has decent reachability, but unfortunately it's not at a particularly high point of the city, it has great reacability into the University and can reach my house, but there's a ridge to the south that puts the antenna more like ground level if it was on that ridge. |
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| ▲ | amatecha 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Actually the opposite, tons of ppl in the meshtastic community (Discord) berate amateur radio operators. I stopped even discussing the subject because of how much derision I observed or was subjected to. Lots of insults and nasty jokes in passing as soon as the topic even comes up whatsoever. Kinda like your post, actually - offhanded derogatory remarks about an entire group of people solely because of the hobby they're involved in. | | |
| ▲ | celsoazevedo 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The person in question has many radios in the background of his videos, so maybe the comment you've replied to is into something :P | | |
| ▲ | fooqux 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Eh, it's a stereotype. In my opinion, they should always be questioned, especially when it's an unkind one like this. Frankly I'm surprised to see this here. Hackers have had more than their share of hurtful stereotype applied to both our hobby and our personality. We should know better. But perhaps there's a generational divide at work there. | | |
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| ▲ | atomicthumbs an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | is it because amateur radio operators legally have standards they have to comply with? |
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| ▲ | walrus01 32 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Speaking as a person who works professionally in fcc part 101 licensed point to point microwave systems carrying IP data, I have less than zero patience for the BS and shenanigans of analog ham radio enthusiasts. They always want to posture as if they'll be some critical service every emergency responder comes running to in a major disaster and it rarely if ever happens. In the interests of not reinventing the wheel, you can see here in the same thread the comment from many other posters about the problems that they have with the behavior, attitude, and perspective of many ham radio operators. | |
| ▲ | fooqux 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | So? | | |
| ▲ | busterarm 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | IYKYK. Hams are known for a distinctive personality type that can be at strong odds from other tech people and other comms people. Usually in ways that clash with consequences. I know a few hams that are chill and they are precious doves. I know quite a few more who I won't even engage with for fear of crossing them and them dedicating their lives to making mine hell. Because I've seen them do it to others. That's not _just_ the hams, mind you. This behavior is overrepresented in hackerspaces in general. But there's a lot of overlap between those groups. Hasn't changed much in the 40-some-odd years I've been involved there either. | | |
| ▲ | jimnotgym 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I have an amateur radio licence and I agree. One reason I rarely operate... I always found it interesting how many useful little apps hams write, keep them closed source and then...die. | | |
| ▲ | toyg 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Could it be because of the history of radio and early electronics being full of inventors getting ripped off by unscrupulous parties...? | | | |
| ▲ | busterarm 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | It's kind of alarming how much more enjoyable the less legal communities in the radio hobby are to spend time around. |
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| ▲ | bobsomers 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I don't really think its fair to lump hams into that behavioral bucket. It's certainly a personality type that tends to get attracted to lots of different technical hobbies. | | |
| ▲ | busterarm 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | If you walk around Defcon and keep an eye out for small clusters (2-3) of 40+ yr old white dudes who are loudly, intentionally bitching about something minor/tangential and chasing anyone remotely interesting away from the area by their mere presence..... 100 times out of 10 they are hams. The phone phreaks have their own quirks too, but it's usually just being smelly and/or chomos. But also that's a tiny percentage. They're way more chill. Lockpicking is the best village. Honorable mentions to car/hardware hacking and biohacking villages. |
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| ▲ | dostick 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | What is IYKYK ? If you know you know? | | | |
| ▲ | mystraline 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > IYKYK. Hams are known for a distinctive personality type that can be at strong odds from other tech people and other comms people. Usually in ways that clash with consequences. Yes, old mildly misogynist, mildly racist, wellakshually, holier than thou, pro-trumper types. I was there at Dayton Hamvention (2024) when they had to turn off the 2M repeater because 2 or 3 of them got into a screaming match over trump. Naturally, I skipped over any trump-flag hanging booth. But the hatred and extreme conservatism is everywhere in the community. And its not my community any longer. I let my license lapse, and I will not renew. I also sold my radios, except for 2 2M handhelds, just on the off case SHTF. I'm a radio hacker, not a ham. I'm no liddy elmer. And nor will I perpetrate shit like YL (you g lady) or OL (old lady), which is common vernacular. | | |
| ▲ | busterarm 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | It's not even just a pro-trump thing. That's not even the thing particularly annoying about hams because that's annoying across all of society. I can tolerate disagreeing with peoples opinions but not disagreeable/disharmonioous behavior. Hams act super gatekeepey and act insanely protective/defensive around things that don't actually belong to them. They tend to have a high sense of self-importance around their skillset and try to do their own "enforcement" of rules that they feel empowered to harass people about. Hams tend to be "fixated persons". They care about their personal capabilities and usually some made up authority they think that gives them. All so they can just endlessly chirp hello world at each other. They developed a skillset and then don't do anything useful for the community with it. Notice I said the community and not their community. They love building insular clubs. They act like authority figures _across the whole damn spectrum_ when their purview is tiny. The coolest radio hacker I ever met was an ex Army radio guy and Desert Storm vet. He ran a licensed LPFM station somewhere in the rust belt but with a pirate radio mindset. Their transmit power was way above what the license allowed but they also weren't bothering anyone :). His station ran afrocentric community/educational content and he ran after school programs teaching teens in his community brodcasting/radio/electronics skills. He helped several of them obtain scholarships. I've rarely if ever seen hams do anything nearly that cool. |
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| ▲ | celsoazevedo 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| For now, I don't think it's fair to compare MeshCore with MeshTastic in terms of enforcement as that has not happened with MeshCore. This seems to be one guy getting a trademark in the UK without the approval of other members of the team. They're not going after anyone. Not yet, at least. |
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| ▲ | mschuster91 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > What is it with mesh projects and having these super draconian trademark enforcers? Simple. Follow the money. Meshcore has more than 100k of users, repeaters are cropping up like weeds across the world. And that means there is a serious incentive to "cash out". Notably, the person "cashing out" here wasn't involved in Meshcore firmware or app development, but in marketing. |
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| ▲ | queenkjuul 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| All meshtastic code is GPL, the name "meshtastic" is owned by the company that developed it. You can use any of the code, you can't use their name outside their rules. This is absolutely no different than, say, Firefox. The trademark policy is very permissable and you don't even need their permission to use the name on a commercial product. I think it's totally sensible for the organization to want to have some level of control over what gets their label on it -- the Wi-Fi people wouldn't be very happy about someone slapping their logo all over a bunch of completely incompatible hardware. |
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| ▲ | toyg 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Nitpicking, but IIRC, Wi-Fi was born largely as a marketing effort rather than a technical one. Interoperability was an afterthought. |
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