And the average developer doesn't even know where to start to deploy things in prod. When the feature product asks passes QA... to the next sprint! we are done!

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chrisweekly 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Whose responsibility is it to establish the prerequisite CICD pipelines, HITL workflows, and Observability infr in order for devs to shepherd changes to prod (and track their impact)? Hint: it's not the developer's.

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philipallstar 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This was the point of "devops" (the concept, not the job title): the team should be responsible for development and operations, so one isn't prioritised hugely over the other.

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liveoneggs 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

But those things all require more pods on the cluster! We've looped back around to the beginning.

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darkwater 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Exactly my point. But then developers: "I just want to go to my Heroku days again!" but then with a sufficient big company there are maaany developers doing things their slightly different way, and then other effects start compounding, and then costs go up because 15 different teams are using 27 different solutions and and and...

But yeah, let's just spin-up a shadow IT VM with Debian like GP said, it's easy!

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throwup238 5 hours ago | parent [-]

> But yeah, let's just spin-up a shadow IT VM with Debian like GP said, it's easy!

That’s literally how they sold AWS in the beginning.

Cloud won not because of costs or flexibility but because it allowed teams to provision their own machines from their budget instead of going through all the red tape with their IT departments creating… a bunch of shadow IT VMs!

Everything old is new again, except it works on an accelerated ten year cycle in the IT industry.

	▲	darkwater 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Indeed. And it stems from the illusion that what works in solo/small teams/scrappy startup works the same when you are bigger, and that a developer can take over all the corollary work to the actual product development. And yes, a dev that's able to do that properly (stress on properly) is indeed a signal of a better overall developer but they are a minority and anyway as orgs scale up there is just too much of "side salad" that it becomes a separated dish.