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asdfman123 11 hours ago

It's not that our leaders are uniquely bad (do you think the CCP leaders are better?) but that the incentives for that kind of economic development aren't there.

Largely due to, as you point out, special interests.

EDIT: judging by the comments everyone here seems to love China

padjo 10 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> do you think the CCP leaders are better?

Based on their public statements and policy actions, absolutely. America these days sounds and behaves like a country being run by absolute cretins.

janalsncm 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

At a 30,000 foot view the purpose of politics is to keep corrupt people and stupid people away from the levers of power. Voting is one possible way, fiat is another.

Readers can assess for themselves the degree to which the U.S. government has done this, as well as the CCP.

By the way Sortition, which is picking random people to run government for a period of time, would probably be better than what we have now in my opinion. We are worse than random.

asdfman123 10 hours ago | parent [-]

What you want out of politics is not the purpose of politics. Politics is an emergent phenomenon that appears naturally within groups of people.

People/groups engage in politics to exert control over the social environment.

janalsncm 10 hours ago | parent [-]

It’s not about what I want. The view I shared above was shared the Founding Fathers of the US, and the writers of its constitution. For example Federalist 57, 68, and 76.

So I’m not talking about “politics” as an emergent social phenomenon I am talking about the deliberate process of setting up a government.

otterley 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> judging by the comments everyone here seems to love China

It is possible both to be impressed by China's accomplishments over the past 30 years while remaining critical about its imperfections (and America's as well). It's not about "loving China;" it's about being open-minded, objective, and thorough in considering the matter.

satvikpendem 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

CCP leaders are largely technocrats unlike in the US. There are many engineers and doctors in the upper ranks.

resonancel 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Well, Xi Jinping and his lackeys are known for their poor educational background, maybe not quite well known in the West.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSYQpaAI90A

robocat 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Many of us have personal experience watching good engineers become bad managers.

Politics is harder than it looks.

In theory an engineering background should help make better politicians. In practice it isn't the slamdunk you imply.

satvikpendem 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

My statement was descriptive not prescriptive. I make no claims about, in a vacuum or for all situations, whether a technocrat is better than one who is not, just that many of their government is made up of them and they seem to be doing well.

jqpabc123 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

In practice it isn't the slamdunk you imply.

In practice, China is very different from the USA. For example, China doesn't have open presidential elections.

anon291 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think phrases like 'love China' set this up as an emotional argument when it isn't one.

I have no idea what China or Chinese leaders are like. I have no relation to China.

However, I can say that their policy choices on these technical issues are better than ours. The only emotion I feel when saying this is disappointment in my own country, rather than pride in China. I wish America had more energy production. Almost all American problems are the result of lacking energy production capacity.

forgetfreeman 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

"do you think the CCP leaders are better?"

Yes, unambiguously. They appear to be aggressively investing in collaborative foreign policy projects globally, have a stellar track record when it comes to not starting random wars around the world, and their economic planning and engagement with decarbonization efforts massively outshine the US.

zdragnar 10 hours ago | parent [-]

You just need to stomach slavery, violent repression of political dissidents, live organ harvesting and a handful of other unpleasantries.

otterley 10 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I'm not an apologist for Chinese repression, but America still has or once had slavery, child labor, torture (Abu Ghraib), patent medicine and unsafe food, racist policies that prevent wealth accumulation (redlining), mass pollution, racism and mistrust of non-white-skinned people, a terrible healthcare system for most, and still debates over the utility of vaccines, has a poor K-12 education outcome, refuses to severely punish notorious white-collar criminals and make their victims whole, immunizes its law enforcement from prosecution when it violates others' civil rights, and vests the President with absolute immunity or a presumption of immunity in exercising its powers. And those are just the embarrassments and atrocities I can think of right now.

We still have a lot to answer for.

asdfman123 10 hours ago | parent [-]

If it's already changed don't you think it's answered for? What level of performative apologetics will make it better in your estimation?

otterley 10 hours ago | parent [-]

I don't want performative apologetics; I want the still-existing problems to be remediated. I also want my fellow Americans not to deny our history and present reality. Recognition and apology are not identical.

asdfman123 10 hours ago | parent [-]

You seem to be not distinguishing things that have happened hundreds of years ago with things that are present, exaggerating the scale of things that are still present, and not acknowledging that those things are widely recognized and even taught in American history classes.

otterley 10 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I made clear that some of these were past (and they reverberate still today), and some are present: "America still has or once had"

> exaggerating the scale of things that are still present

What am I exaggerating, exactly?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/polic...

https://mappingpoliceviolence.org

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/quality...

https://www.npr.org/2026/03/14/nx-s1-5734051/measles-outbrea...

> not acknowledging that those things are widely recognized and even taught in American history classes

In some states, yes. In others, the content is being censored (another embarrassment for America, which once censored the teaching of evolution!). See, e.g.:

https://pen.org/educational-censorship/index-of-educational-...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_of_school_curricula...

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/a-look-at-whats-behind-the...

forgetfreeman 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The For Profit Penal System (tm) and the resulting recidivism rates associated therewith, while not technically slavery, isn't exactly not slavery either. Anyway was there something specific you're trying to defend here or is this merely an exercise in performative nitpicking?

vondur 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Yeah, people here are insane to believe the CCP is some kind of technocratic benevolent autocracy.

forgetfreeman 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The same can be said without irony about the current administration in the US so there is that. Anyway it's perfectly reasonable to point out the ways in which the CCP is outperforming western governments. If that bothers you then I'd say you may want to contact your representatives.

asdfman123 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It helps that they spend billions to manipulate public perception on forums like this one

11 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
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