>> You’d think essentially free energy would sell itself

I think it would if it was indeed “essentially free”. Rooftop solar is unfortunately a racket though, and companies price-gouge like crazy and also collude to keep prices inflated.

▲

pjc50 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

American solar installer companies do seem to charge way more than European or British ones. I got 3.9kW installed almost ten years ago for just £5500, including all the paperwork for feed-in-tariffs. It has long since paid for itself just in subsidy, let alone actual consumption.

▲

jeffbee 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

In general, contractor overhead in America is obscene, compared to Europe. We have a lot of regularly capture working to keep it that way, too.

▲

bredren a minute ago | parent | next [-]

I am counting on physical, semi technical contract work to pay once SWE opportunities shrink to the point where it’s not worth it anymore.

Now is the time to get handy if not already. Robotics /physical automation will lag info by a good stretch.

▲

atourgates 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

DIY is viable if you're a bit nutters (like me).

I just paid ~$35k (pre-now-expired-tax-break) to install a grid-tied 25kw ground mount system. I DIY'd everything except the connection between the array and the grid, which I paid an electrician to do, and the trenching which I paid my buddy with a mini-excavator to do.

It was a bit of a PITA, but mostly because I didn't finally make up my mind to do it until October and had to have it constructed by Dec 31st to take advantage of the expiring tax credit. If I'd given myself 6 months, it would have still been a big project, but way less stressful.

My neighbor's paid the same price to a contractor for a 11kw system.

Even at 46°N, and with relatively cheap electricity, my system should pay for itself in 6-8 years.

	▲	cuttothechase an hour ago \| parent \| next [-]
		Do you have a blog or a writeup about this? What would have been the cost if it was not DIY'd? Is this doable only in a rural/semi-urban settings?
	▲	jeffbee 2 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		Being an honorary or actual redneck in an exurban American setting will be the sweet spot for this. Your neighbor's rusting Bobcat is not useless after all. You have the space for ground mounting. I toyed with a rooftop solar DIY project with an electrician handling the AC side, but in my urban context PG&E wanted a six-figure fee for a subterranean transformer upgrade. In 2024 the state regulator established rules that PG&E can't charge for that kind of service upgrade so maybe I should start considering it again.

▲

scottyah 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It all comes back to insurance- they're used to getting crazy sums of money because nobody questions the rates

▲

jauntywundrkind 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

We looked at trying to get some mini-split heat pumps for my mom's place & were getting quotes $30k figures for two modest units (it's a tiny well insulated house). I don't know what the frak is wrong with this nation; this is so fantastically worrying.

	▲	rootusrootus an hour ago \| parent \| next [-]
		HVAC is wildly variable, even more so than other trades in my experience. Get several quotes, there will be five digit differences between the top and bottom.
	▲	projektfu an hour ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		Try looking up HVAC workers on thumbtack.

▲

danans 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> American solar installer companies do seem to charge way more than European or British ones

One of the reasons for this is that in many parts of the US, solar has sadly been market segmented as a luxury product, just like other high efficiency products like heat pumps or EVs.

This is enabled by both the prevailing cultural attitudes about efficiency and renewables as indulgences for the better off, and industries that are happy to keep captive high margin markets of those customers, i.e. the continued lack of a US produced low-cost EV.

The American cult of individualism is also at play, wherein collective solutions are shunned vs private ones, which is why renewables and storage are so popular among off grid libertarian types.

▲

CalRobert 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

One of the things I like most about balcony solar is that you can DIY it (at least, in the places I know that have approved it) instead of getting scammed.

▲

chung8123 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There are so many scams in the solar industry. I feel like a ton of installers joined just to make a quick buck with no effort.

	▲	twoodfin 3 hours ago \| parent [-]
		This tends to happen when a lot of government “free money” is on the table. See also: War profiteering.

▲

unethical_ban 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Sure it isn't up front, and there's probably something to be said about scammers seeing green with subsidy money.

But the very idea of not being dependent on the grid or fossil fuels, if one can afford it and costs are comparable, should sell itself.

But my dad watches Fox News so he brings up lies like how bad wind turbines are for the environment (coal anyone?) or how we shouldn't make ourselves dependent on China for solar (as if we aren't dependent on a lot of bad hombres for our current energy mix or as if receiving solar makes us dependent at all).

---

Edit: HN's conversation throttler childishly patronized me for "posting too fast". At least do me the honor of telling me you don't like what I'm saying, instead of telling me I'm posting too quickly when I'm making 1 message/hour.

---

In response to dataflow below:

It still reveals an ignorant cult-like derision for renewables that isn't explained by reality. The people who gleefully mock the issues with renewables do it because they have been trained to want renewables to fail, and to see active support for renewables as a signal for softness and liberalism.

▲

parpfish 3 hours ago | parent [-]

My local town Facebook group gleefully mocks local solar each time it snows/is cloudy, as if. There’s never been anything (eg, a war in the Mideast) that could disrupting fossil fuels pricing and availability…

▲

dataflow 2 hours ago | parent [-]

> My local town Facebook group gleefully mocks local solar each time it snows/is cloudy, as if. There’s never been anything (eg, a war in the Mideast) that could disrupting fossil fuels pricing and availability…

Your counterargument is even worse than theirs. The predictability, frequency, severity, mitigability, etc. of these are extremely different.

▲

kaibee 2 hours ago | parent [-]

> predictability

I'm giving this one to renewables.

> frequency

I guess technically the weather is probably bad for solar or wind more often than geopolitical disturbances to the oil market but, if we go by when its bad for solar _AND_ wind, I feel like I'd need to see the data.

> severity

Tied, maybe? Depends if we're including like, the 70s and if we're looking at just from a US standpoint or if we're including Europe.

> mitigability

I feel lot more confident in my ability to add more panels than to negotiate reopening the Strait of Hormuz.

	▲	downrightmike 6 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		Fossil Fuel is disposable energy, like dixie cups, use once and then throw it away. Renewables are reusable energy, day after day. Also oil and gas tankers move at about the same speed of someone riding a bike, across the ocean, taking nearly 2 months to cross. Its insane the amount of time and resources wasted like that.