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▲ ck2 5 hours ago

look how cheap now, it's crazy

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256809986804138.html

I'm old enough to remember Carter putting them on WhiteHouse roof and they were thousands of dollars then (and less efficient)

▲atwrk 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

That's actually only cheap because of the free shipping - in Germany 450W panels are at about 55-60€ retail right now, for example. So a balcony set (2 panels for 1kW total, plus inverter) is about 150-200€, depending on the specific parts. Both exluding shipping, though.

Prices fell dramatically in the last few years, if I understood things correctly the high prices in the US are mostly due to tariffs.

▲cyberge99 4 hours ago | parent [-]

That’s right. The current US president just reversed some of the previous administration’s Infrastructure Act which provided about 30% tax credit for installing solar.

▲DonHopkins 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

And Reagan taking them down.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/03/22/jiimmy-ca...

>It was pretty symbolic back in 1979, too. The symbolism depended on what you thought of Carter and his policies. For some, the panels were a much-needed acknowledgment that America had to wean itself from fossil fuel, explore alternative energy sources and help save the planet. For others, they were in the same category as Carter’s virtue-signaling cardigan. Of course, critics moaned, Carter would put solar panels on the White House.

>The panels came down in 1986 when the White House roof was undergoing repairs. Ronald Reagan did not have them replaced. Of course, Reagan wouldn’t put solar panels on the White House.

What is the story behind Reagan taking down the solar panels installed by Carter? Was it symbolic of a new, less enthusiastic approach to clean energy?

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/g4w4ww/what_...

Solar power at the White House

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_at_the_White_House

>On June 20, 1979, 32 solar water heating panels were placed on the roof of the West Wing. The panels were made by InterTechnology/Solar Corp. from Warrenton, Virginia and installed by Hector Guevara of Alternate Energy Industries Corp.[2] At the dedication ceremony for the panels, President Carter said, "In the year 2000 this solar water heater behind me, which is being dedicated today, will still be here supplying cheap, efficient energy... A generation from now, this solar heater can either be a curiosity, a museum piece, an example of a road not taken or it can be just a small part of one of the greatest and most exciting adventures ever undertaken by the American people".[1]

The whole installation cost $35,000 in 1979 (about $160,000 now).

https://books.google.nl/books?id=e9dlzwL4Ck4C&dq=solar+white...

▲saidinesh5 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The link isn't available here. Can you share the specs and price of that panel?

▲daemonologist 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I'm in the US and it's showing a 100W panel for USD 37.21 (free shipping, including tariffs but not state/local taxes).

Also the panels Carter installed were solar water heaters - in 1979 solar photovoltaics were just starting to expand beyond satellites and cost like $40/watt.

▲ck2 5 hours ago | parent [-]

it's actually $33 because there's a $4 coupon available to everyone on the page

and if you buy 2 at a time there are multiple 10% codes available

so it's $67 USD for 200watts

100watt 18volt 5amp panels that can be put in series or parallel

for $33 each, it's crazy

▲dhosek 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

100W 18V for $37 and change.

▲dhosek 5 hours ago | parent [-]

If we can get balcony solar in the US that will be a huge game changer.

▲driverdan 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Unless it's not allowed in your lease nothing is stopping you, go for it.

▲fred_is_fred 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's legal in a few states already including Colorado and Utah - with more coming.

▲ 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
[deleted]
▲engineer_22 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Subtropical latitudes in continental US markets, you're looking at like $2/yr/sq ft of value for the power output.

I'd want solar panels for like $5/sq ft installed, expecting 10 years of life.

It's going to cost $1000 minimum to install, so the panels need to cost $2/sq ft x 300 sq ft to make this worth it. $1000 to install 300 sq ft + inverter and electrical panel upgrades seems light but might be reasonable we'll go with it.

Larger than a balcony, but maybe in the realm of possibility for a roof.

Right now solar panels cost what? $10 per square foot? Have they reached the physical limit of economic production/storage/transportation at $10 per sq ft or can it go lower?

(Let's not get into battery micro-storage economics).

▲cma 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

$37.21 for a 100 watt panel with free shipping. I'm not sure if that is before or after 50% tariffs and/or the 10% "fentanyl" extra tariff that was announced a few days after Ross Ulbricht's pardon for running the world's largest opiates-by-mail operation.

▲horsawlarway 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

You can buy brand new in bulk in the US for roughly the same $/watt.

I bought 30 375w Canadian Solar panels 2 years ago and paid $0.41/watt (~$4536 for the whole package)

My mounting equipment actually cost more than the panels (~$4600). And the permitting process cost nearly as much as the panels (permit cost + architectural drawing + structural engineer stamp + electrician stamp).

It's crazy how cheap solar panels themselves are getting. They're going to win on the energy front - period. Especially now that battery tech actually seems to be moving again. I vividly remember one of my robotics professors in undergrad ranting about how frustrated he was with battery tech in ~2007, but LFP and sodium batteries are both pretty huge steps forward.

▲tribaal 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Another data point: my entire system in Switzerland cost me 1.3CHF/Watt including a 20kWh battery and 5000 CHF of scaffolding costs (needed because of our local OSHA equivalent laws when installing panels on a tilted roof).

It has become ridiculously cheap indeed.

▲engineer_22 4 hours ago | parent [-]

What's the cost of power in Confoederatio Helvetica?

▲rayhaanj 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Around 30 centiCHFs per KWh at the peak tariff: https://www.ewz.ch/en/private-customers/electricity/tariffs/...

▲engineer_22 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

How much does power and grid delivery cost in Canada to make this economical? You're into this for $15,000 what is your payback period? Are there other ameliorating criteria for success?

▲horsawlarway 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I'm actually in GA (Canadian Solar is the panel manufacturer - CSI). Power is cheap in my region, and I was in ~$30k after all costs including the battery storage (LFP).

It covers 95+% of the my usage, and I use a fair chunk of power. My payback period will be almost exactly 120 months (10 years) if my power costs remained the same as they did at estimation time.

But they won't. We're already seeing relatively large rate increases (GA power has "locked" rates but conveniently has a floating "fuel charge" which is currently more than the base rate per watt...).

I expect it to take 6 to 8 years to entirely recoup costs. It helps that I did the install myself, so I avoided contractor markup. Quotes from contractors for a similar install were running ~60k+ which felt (and was) insane, although STILL profitable over the lifespan of the install.

Panels should then last another 20+ years after repayment with only minor maintenance.

It's shocking how easily they pay for themselves right now, assuming you get decent sun on your property.

▲testing22321 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I got $7.6kw installed in BC , Canada. Fully installed for $13k. Minus $5k grant, and the $8 is on a 10 year interest free loan.

Power is 13c kWh, guranteed to go up min of 5% a year.

So now instead of paying $1000 a year in power, I put that on the loan which will be gone in 7 years. The 20 years of $1000 a year free money.

I’ve had the system almost two years, they’re noticeably cheaper now. System makes 7.2Mwh per calendar year in a tight valley where it snows a ton.

▲dhosek 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Heck even if that’s pre-tariff it’s cheap enough that it could be an impulse buy.

▲ck2 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

it's from a US warehouse so there are no tariffs (or they've already been paid/included)

▲ck2 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

sorry didn't think it would have geo-block

https://images2.imgbox.com/8b/e1/R6pnQUCr_o.jpg