Dumb comparison, because buying a Framework is a single transaction where I exchange money for a computer, and buying a Mac is an entrypoint to “The Ecosystem” where Apple wants to squeeze me for $<pricing_tier>/month forever.

Peep the margins on “Products” versus “Services” and you will understand what Apple's incentives are and why just selling me hardware isn't it: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/pdfs/fy2026-q1/FY26_Q1_Consol...

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llbbdd 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I've bought two Apple products in my life, both Macbook Pros, one in 2014 and one in 2021. I have a Pixel phone, zero transactions in the App Store all-time, pay $0 to Apple on any kind of subscription basis. Not disagreeing with the nature of their incentive structure, but if they're intentionally crippling their hardware division somehow to squeeze me for money, they're really bad at it.

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iririririr 7 hours ago | parent [-]

[flagged]

	▲	llbbdd 6 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		They were accused of that by people who didn't understand that batteries degrade over time, and the resulting legal suits were entirely about disclosing the throttling, not the throttling itself. Newer iPhone models still do the exact same thing, they just provide more information about it, and let you toggle it off. The idea that they were doing this maliciously never made sense anyway, customers who haven't upgraded in a while might be the least lucrative audience to target.
	▲	thebruce87m 5 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		This has never happened. Batterygate was about stopping individual handsets from rebooting by triggering throttling after a brownout. If you are trying to drive up sales you would just let these out of warranty devices reboot. Literally doing nothing would have been easier for Apple.

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rafram 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's really not, though. You don't even need an Apple account to set up a Mac.

I pay $3/month to Apple in exchange for full-quality backups of decades of photos, but I could easily stop doing that, or switch to another provider, if I wanted to. (I don't, because $3/month is extremely fair for what I get.) I've never paid for any other Apple service and likely never will. The OS never, ever nags me about services - compare that to Windows!

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HDBaseT 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Whilst you don't "need" an Apple account to setup a Mac, using a Macbook without an account may not be viable for a lot of people.

First and foremost, you cannot install any applications through the primary method of app installation, which is the App Store.

You also cannot use certain applications like iMovie (which is pre-installed) without an Apple Account.

MacOS will always prompt you in the Settings to sign in with iCloud. Opt into Betas, including Public and Developer Betas are not possible without an iCloud account.

The Apple land is miles better than the Microsoft land, which you aptly point out though.

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vizzier 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> or switch to another provider

Can you though? Its been a few years since I've been on apple, but being able to get anything but icloud native support in other apps was basically non-existent. Compared to android where it gives you a plethora of choice out of the box.

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rafram 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Yes - they're already on my computer, so any full-disk backup service will back them up by default. There's an option to purge them from disk and download from iCloud on demand, but you don't need to use it: https://support.apple.com/en-us/111762

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vizzier 6 hours ago | parent [-]

ah fair, I was thinking on the iphone, but in fairness this is a thread about a laptop

	▲	fizwidget 5 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Even on an iPhone you can back up your library to Google Photos or other services. You just can’t do so directly through Apple’s Photos app.

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nicoburns 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It's different on mobile (iOS/Android) where individual apps need special support for cloud providers. On a mac everything is just a file for most apps, so all the cloud providers work by default.

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afavour 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Buying a Mac is also a single transaction. Yes, they have lots of other services they want to sell you on but you're in no way obliged to take them up on it.

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Lammy 7 hours ago | parent [-]

I don't want to use a computer whose greatest aspiration is to be a sales funnel even if I am personally strong-willed enough to say no when nagged.

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afavour 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

You’re imagining a “greatest aspiration” that doesn’t exist. macOS has an iCloud login button in the Settings app and that’s about it.

	▲	Lammy 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Sorry, but you're wrong. Music-dot-app is a great example. Check out all the ways it tries to upsell you even if you just want to play local files: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anrB6fP1WeQ&t=65s - opens to a full-page Apple Music subscription service ad on first run. - search functionality defaults to “Apple Music” instead of “Local Library” (or “iTunes Store”) even when the user has no active subscription. - Apple Music subscription upsell banner ad along the bottom of the search results screen, that stays on screen as you scroll the results pane. Check out at the end when he demos Music-dot-app's Settings pane changing to include CD-ripping settings when and only when a CD drive is available, something they could also do and chose not to for Apple Music subscription service when the user isn't subscribed.

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rafram 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

macOS seriously never nags you about services. Service nags aren't classy. You can credibly accuse Apple of plenty of things, but having a lack of class isn't one.

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Lammy 6 hours ago | parent [-]

My screenshots directory says you are wrong: https://i.ibb.co/cKjL8qcG/Screenshot-2025-02-18-at-09-07-06....

My last (and first, and only) iPhone was even worse. At one point the Settings app had no fewer than three paid-service nags at the top that I had to scroll through to even get to the first actual setting.

Storage almost full: enable iCloud Backup!

Try Apple Music, first month free!!

Activate your Apple News+ free trial!!! https://i.ibb.co/Cp275qQ9/news.webp

	▲	rafram 4 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Image Playground isn’t a service, it’s a free local image generation model. But I’ll grant you that the News+ thing is kind of annoying. I wouldn’t call it a nag, though - it shows in the Settings anpp after you buy a new device that includes free months, while they’re still valid, then it goes away forever.

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aurareturn 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What $/month are you forced to buy for a Mac?

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5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[deleted]

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rjh29 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

You're also locked into their ecosystem for repairs, accessories etc. all of which are more expensive than anywhere else.

	▲	opan 6 hours ago \| parent [-]
		What kind of accessories? You can use cheap generic USB-C docks/hubs, depending on your needs. (macOS doesn't support DP MST so depending on # of screens you want to attach, you may need a more expensive dock, though it still doesn't have to be Apple-specific).