| ▲ | dehugger 8 hours ago |
| A laptop without a unified memory model is categorically incapable of being the "ultimate developer laptop". Framework already have Strix Halo machines, I don't know why they felt the need to hamstring this thing with Intel. |
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| ▲ | Sephr 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| Where are you getting that this doesn't have a unified memory model? This laptop uses an iGPU with shared memory. |
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| ▲ | nfriedly 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| FWIW, the ordering page lets you also choose AMD Ryzen 350 / HX 370. It's not the Strix Halo chips you're hoping for, but it is something. |
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| ▲ | ColonelPhantom 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Hilariously, those AMD chips are way behind the Intels in terms of memory. First off, I believe that Intel has its memory far more "unified". AMD typically has a stricter VRAM/RAM 'tradeoff' setting that does not exist on Intel in the same way to my knowledge. (See how on Strix Halo systems, there is a thing about "allocating" 96 GB to the GPU, which seems to be needed sometimes but prevents the CPU from accessing that memory.) Secondly, the Panther Lake board has LPDDR5X LPCAMM2 memory at 7467 MT/s, while the AMD boards are stuck with DDR5 SODIMMs at a meagre 5600 MT/s. In other words, the Intel board gets a third more memory bandwidth! | | |
| ▲ | blm126 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | I’ve got the Framework desktop with strix halo. You can reserve memory for the GPU, but it’s straightforward at least on Linux to have the GPU dynamically grab memory as needed. I’ve got my VRAM set to 512MB and regularly use 120GB+for AI stuff. |
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| ▲ | dehugger 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Really? Because I did look through the entire spec list they provided and didnt see any non-Intel. Didnt get to the order screen since it was behind a waitlist sign up. I agree, that is better then nothing. | | |
| ▲ | pdpi 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | It's now new, it's the motherboard they already ship with the regular FW13. Because the bits are mostly interchangeable, they just let you order the FW13 Pro with the AMD motherboard. | | |
| ▲ | dehugger 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | Awesome, thats good news. I have a FW Desktop with the 395+ in it and have generally been impressed with it. Hoping that will eventually make its way into these machines. |
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| ▲ | new_user55 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I will guess for linux. Most out of the box linux laptops I saw were intel based. I guess open source support of intel is best among others in the industry. Even in my current thinkpad first thing I did was to replace its wifi module from realtek to intel (realtek was always hanging/dropping connection etc). |
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| ▲ | femiagbabiaka 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Why? |
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| ▲ | bestouff 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | Running local AI requires unified memory. | | |
| ▲ | luyu_wu 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The iGP can access shared memory the same as with any modern system. I'm confused where you got this idea from. | | |
| ▲ | dehugger 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | There is a huge difference between on-die and off-die memory. Where that shared memory is located matters immensely. | | |
| ▲ | Rohansi 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Assuming you're referring to Apple Silicon's memory bandwidth, that is not necessarily because the memory is on-die. The bandwidth comes from having more channels to access memory. This gives the SoC a wider bus to increase throughput vs. your typical x86 system with two channels. For whatever reasons Intel/AMD decided that two channels is all the typical consumer chips can support now so it's on them. | | |
| ▲ | Melatonic 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | On laptops right? Weve seen more channels for years elsewhere | | |
| ▲ | Rohansi 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yes, on laptops, but even on most desktops now too. Higher number of channels is getting more limited to server systems. |
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| ▲ | dehugger 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Ah I see, thanks for breaking it down. |
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| ▲ | dehugger 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I appreciate everyone's corrections here, my apologies. I clearly misunderstood the situation. | |
| ▲ | ColonelPhantom 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | You mentioned Strix Halo, which also has off-die memory. Strix Halo does have a real advantage from its wider memory bus (four channels for 256 bit instead of 128 bit), but Strix Point is equivalent-ish to Intel's platforms like Panther Lake or Arrow Lake in terms of memory setup. In fact, Intel also had Lunar Lake, which had on-package memory. However, it was still limited to 128-bit dual-channel, so there weren't really many performance benefits; it did however help with power efficiency. | |
| ▲ | fulafel 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Macs or other competing systems don't have on-die memory. (Except for the caches, which everybody has) | |
| ▲ | kcb 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Nonsense, Apple has on package memory and the primary reason for that is overall packaging and layout not performance |
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| ▲ | sdwvit 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | It is much slower, but still possible to run on ram |
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| ▲ | Rohansi 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | There is no VRAM in this laptop so how is it not unified? The CPU and GPU both share the same memory. |
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| ▲ | unethical_ban 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Quick search shows LPCAMM2 at 7500MT/s is about 120GB/s, which seems about on par with M4 base and a bit better than DDR5. BTW as an AMD fanboy and stockholder, Intel's latest generation of CPUs is quality. |
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| ▲ | dismalaf 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| > hamstring this thing with Intel. Have you missed all the recent Intel news or something? |
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| ▲ | _bobm 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | What are the news recently? | | |
| ▲ | dismalaf 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | Well, Intel was kind of in the dumps because their process fell behind. They didn't bet on EUV and got leapfrogged by TSMC and Samsung who did use ASML's EUV technology. They eventually got on the EUV train and were the first customer to receive ASML's current state of the art machine which they call high-NA EUV. Intel's 18A process is the first to use this machine as part of the manufacturing process, Panther Lake uses this process so now they're right back to being SOTA. All the news about them (stock price movements, theories about them going bankrupt, Panther Lake, etc...) for the last 2 years has essentially been people betting on whether or not they can successfully incorporate SOTA ASML machines into their manufacturing. |
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| ▲ | lawn 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Gotta be honest, I have. I'm still living in a world where AMD is superior, but that may not be the case today? | | |
| ▲ | okanat 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | For laptops Lunar lake and Panther lake addressed many issues and brought x86 power consumption to Apple Silicon levels. |
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